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The former Daily Statesman is now The Dexter Statesman and currently does not have an operating website.

Is Powell the final nail in McCain's coffin?

Posted Wednesday, October 22, 2008, at 8:01 AM

Ok, so I know this is a little late, but I've been extra busy this week with some personal things.

So, Sunday morning marked what, in my opinion, is one of the most interesting twists in the election: Powell's endorsement of Barack Obama.

While, in reality, the political importance of Powell is minimal, when such a well regarded Republican comes out in favor of a Democrat candidate, you have to pay attention.

My gut tells me, and mind you my gut has been very wrong before haha, that Powell is likely the final nail in McCain's coffin. It could mean nothing, but Obama has seen an almost 7-percent spike in the polls since Sunday morning.

Despite what big news this is, Powell has really worked to separate himself from the GOP since the beginning of the war in Iraq I think. I know there were some major disagreements in regards to whether or not to invade and I believe they led to his eventual resignation as Secretary of State.

So, while it's news, it's not a huge surprise.

What do you guys think this will mean to the McCain campaign over the next 12 days???

Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

At one time Powell was thought to be asked to be VP on Republican and Democratic ticket. Powell's wife asked he stay out of politics. Big win for the Obama campaign.

Come on now with your nasties remarks.

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 8:30 AM

As I have said in other post in diferent forums, the person in office is not the one that makes my life. Hard work and perserverence is the key. Sometimes I have had to take work that I did not want to do, you will find that there is plenty of jobs that other people do not want to do, so the one elected to office will be no cause for me to panic.

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 9:18 AM

Too bad for us that Powell's wife is a sensible lady who wants to stay away from politics; he would have made a much better "first black nominee" than the one we got. It's good to know he will be available as an advisor if the inexperienced one gets elected, as seems likely.

-- Posted by gardengirl on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 10:39 AM

Colin Powell has the right idea. I am a little worried, actually a lot worried, that something might happen to McCain. He is getting quite old and has a history of skin cancer. Hopefully, he lives a very long time. That being said ,I dont think that I would want Sarah Palin running the United States of America. I have no doubt that she is a good person, however, my next door neighbor is a nice lady and intelligent but I would NOT want her as president. So much is now being said about Obama that it borders on the ridiculous. I say lets let Obama see what he can do, it cannot be any worse than what we have had in the past eight years. If we dont like what he does, then vote him out next time.

-- Posted by bwkingdingo on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:38 AM

Next time could be too late. Why in the world would I take that chance? If Sarah Palin isn't qualified, Obama surely isn't.

Colin Powell doesn't sway me one way or another. He is probably a pretty good politician but he was never really highly admired by military personnel. Not the enlisted members that I was around anyway. They were well aware that his promotions were political and he worked in the political arena rather than the military. No one disliked him, he just wasn't admired.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:55 AM

Well, then, they were the only ones who DIDN'T admire him, I.B. Of course, I'm sure some people will say, "I never did like him!" after the fact.

I just hate to see Powell slimed the way Obama has been.

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 4:15 PM

GL, I hate to break the news to you but for more than five years the Demos themselves have been unmercifully slimming Powell as a spineless Republican tool for his weapons of mass destruction speech to the UN that helped pave the way for the invasion of Iraq! Sure they'll take his endorsement, but that isn't saying much because they would welcome Satan's endorsement if it brought them some votes.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 5:34 PM

Knew it wouldnt take long.

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 6:07 PM

Amen, dexterite. Right on schedule. P-R-E-D-I-C-T-A-B-L-E!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 7:31 PM

DX and GL, Colin Powell can take great pride that in trying to prove he isn't an Uncle Tom that he has joined hands with The Communist Party USA that also endorses Obama for President, http://cpusa.org/article/articleview/907... That is no smear, just the cold hard truth.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 9:49 PM

Off the deep end, FJ...Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeep!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 10:23 PM

I am not degrading Powell. He has been very successful in his life and has done some admirable things. I personally have always thought he was aligned with the Democratic party and there is nothing wrong with that. I am saying that he never received his promotions because of military accomplishments. He never went through the same steps to become a General Officer that all others go through. He was truly a political appointee. You can bet that if he would have endorsed McCain the sliming would have been horendous. He would have been attacked as George Bush's lap dog for lieing to the U.N.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 11:53 PM

Right on I.B. Right on!!

-- Posted by mythought on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 8:15 AM

Has anyone checked the poll question breakdown on political preferences? Republicans posting on this site outnumber Democrats by double. That's what I figured, judging from the chatter.

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 10:52 AM

goat lady, I figure more like 5 to 1......check your local yard signs.

-- Posted by changedname on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 11:57 AM

Hilary is going to become Sec. of State, Powell will be defense.

-- Posted by mobrigade on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 2:10 PM

Well, it was one more nail! I don't know if it can be considered the last one though. My prediction? Obama is going to win a landslide electoral vote. I hate the cold facts about Obama and hate the idea of the most liberal senator being president and 2nd most liberal senator being vice-president, but it's probably going to happen. If the Democrats get the majority they want in both houses, they will be able to push ALL judicial nominees through with little or no debate. ALL pro-life progress will be reversed. The "Fairness Doctrine" will be passed, limiting free speech of conservatism. I predict some more heavy weight endorsements in the next few days.

-- Posted by swift on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 3:30 PM

And the world will end.

-- Posted by changedname on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 3:40 PM

I wouldn't go that far, dexterite! The world will go on as God has all under control. Sometimes He allows reversals of what is right to occur to wake up sleepy conservatives! Republicans have their selves to blame on this one as they gained control of both houses of Congress and the White House and then let power go their heads. The Christian Right will keep voting for these supposed conservatives though.

-- Posted by swift on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 4:18 PM

Very well put Swift, 8 years ago America was optimistic, but something happened and it all blew up.

-- Posted by changedname on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 8:24 PM

The attack on our country happened and that's what blew it all up! I can't believe it's so easy for people to forget that our country was attacked ,and that they are now considering putting a man in office with KNOWN TERRORIST CONNECTIONS.

-- Posted by military wife on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 11:19 PM

GL, I haven't gone off the deep end. Just the opposite, I'm standing on a ladder. I came across a March 2007 pro-Communist blog in New Zealand that was about Obama's Marxist/Communist education and leanings. It is titled: "Barack Obama's Marxist Mentor," and among other tidbits it has is, "the Communist Party USA is claiming Barack Obama as its spiritual heir." Remember, this was 19 months ago at the very beginning of the primary season when there were eight or so serious Democratic candidates. And what question was asked at the end of the blog: "Will the CPUSA back Barack?" That question is what inspired me to go to the Communist Parties website, and lo and behold, I found that the Communists in the U.S. are supporting the presidential candidate who they think most embodies their values ... their "spiritual heir" Barack Obama! See, http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2007/03/bara...

It is very interesting that it is noted on the blog, "The media is so afraid to criticize Obama, for fear of being labeled "racist", that they give him a complete pass on any difficult questions." Obama's skin color has protected him from intense scrutiny by the media ever since he announced he was running for president. Sarah Palin underwent more critical investigation by the media in the first week or two that she was a vice-presidential candidate than Obama has in the last couple years combined. If the media had done their job and investigated Obama he wouldn't be the Democratic candidate -- and he might be unable to get elected as Chicago's dogcatcher.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Thu, Oct 23, 2008, at 11:58 PM

FJ, I read an article yesterday about how all endorsements are not equal. An endorsement from Oprah is one heck of a lot more welcome to a candidate than one from Louis Farrakhan. Same goes for McCain's endorsements.

I read your Communist Party USA site, and I noted that while they "endorse" Obama, he does NOT endorse THEM. A left-wing group like the Communist Party is going to find a right-wing candidate more objectionable than a moderate or liberal candidate. Besides, sometimes the "endorsee" hopes to gain nothing more than publicity for their own cause.

And, Mr. FJ, I would be willing to bet that even YOU have read and understand Marxist philosophy. Because you have STUDIED it doesn't make you a Marxist!

Left-wing/right-wing - They're both extremists. Some people just don't seem to be able to stay in the middle, and you may be one of them.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 7:50 AM

Military wife, with all respect for your position, I have to remind you that serving on a community improvement board with an old rabble-rouser-turned-community-activist does NOT constitute "palling around with terrorists." That is itself a rabble-rousing statement created for the purpose of political campaigning.

One of my younger brothers was admittedly a pot-smoking hippie back in the late 60's, early 70's. I have no doubt that if I were running for office (heaven forbid), my opponents would try to smear me with that information.

Nobody's forgetting that our country was attacked, but let's try to keep our wits about it. You don't go off attacking every other country in the world, trying to get back at the one group who was responsible for the attack. Osama Ben Laden attacks us, so we go kill off everyone in the Middle East as retaliation? That's the mentality here. I used to have a student who said, "Nuke 'em! Nuke 'em!" to every issue. It's human nature to want to lash out at anyone we perceive as a threat.

Yeah, I know I'll be sorry I posted this, because it'll just get me hate mail, but I felt that it needed to be said. I usually write these posts and then promptly delete them without hitting "save."

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 8:11 AM

GL, my gosh lady. Obama kicked off his Senatorial campaign from the living room of Bill Ayers. It's pretty hard to say you just served on some boards together if you endorse his book and have a grand kicking off party at his house. Why would you even begin to be fooled by this guy? Sorry, I forgot that he is a registered Democrat. Believe me this is not your normal everyday Democrat.

You also seem to forget that the Iraq situation had been brewing since the first Gulf War when Iraq was kicked out of Kuwait. That situation brewed for over 10 years because we never finished that when we should have and our pilots were getting shot at every day trying to enforce a UN resolution. We even lost a couple aircraft and one pilot who was taken prisoner and we have never found him. Found his clothes though. So much for their compliance with the Geneva Convention. We are not attacking every country in Middle East and some of those countries are helping us more than our other supposed allies.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 9:10 AM

What's interesting is this, military wife: right after 9-11, we were so patriotic. Remember the Fair Parade just after that awful day? As the honor guard passed, people stood and clapped. According to the flag code, we are supposed to stand when the flag passes in a parade. We are supposed to at least put our right hand over our heart. Men are to take their hats off. We were real patriotic for the next couple years. I wonder how many people showed their patriotism during the Stoddard County Fair parade this last time? Americans forget so fast and they are so fickle!

-- Posted by swift on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 3:43 PM

I don't agree, swift. Americans haven't forgotten a durn thing. I keep hearing this complaint, but in the meantime, the number of U.S. flags flying in our town is amazing to first time visitors. The respect for our troops is still high.

Some of you wouldn't be happy if we wrapped ourselves in the flag every day and sang the Star Spangled Banner every hour on the hour.

I'll probably be sorry I said this (as usual), but patriotism isn't always a good thing, as they discovered in Germany during WWII. Now patriotism is discouraged in that country, and they can't even sing their national anthem for fear of starting another strong nationalistic movement. Blind patriotism is seriously overrated.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 24, 2008, at 9:51 PM

King Dingo,

Other than the fact that Hussein Obama has ties to Hamas and many other terrorist groups in the U.s. and abroad, he still has WAY LESS political experience than Palin. Plus, raising taxes has ALWAYS hurt the economy. It's text book in high school and college. Less money to spend means less money to spend.

Also, his propaganda is bordering on absurd. He stated today that he buys "five of the same suits" and wears them until he has to "patch them up". That statement was on CNN this morning. Absolutely NO, and I mean NO, senator does that.

-- Posted by Jim Morrison on Sat, Oct 25, 2008, at 2:34 AM

GL, the point is that the Communist Party USA considers Barack Obama to be their "spiritual savior" and they consider his attitudes to be sufficiently in line with their goals to support him for President.

Why does the Communist Party feel such a close affinity to Obama? IB has noted many times Obama's tie to William "Bill" Ayers. But their association was much closer than has been reported in the MSM. Ayers was deeply involved in the Democratic Socialists of America, members of which in the mid-1990s aided in setting up a front organization to run socialist candidates for political office as Democrats. Their strategy was to infiltrate the Democratic Party with hardcore socialists and Marxists. That front organization was the New Party. Obama was a member of the New Party and endorsed by them when he ran and won his election to the Illinois Senate in 1996 as a Democrat. Ayers didn't just avidly support Obama's candidacy, but held the event announcing his candidacy in his home. Obama's political career was launched in the living room of Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, and the DSA endorsed him. See CNN report, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec2X9ApSF...

I came across a webpage that summarizes much of this, and it has pictures of Obama in the New Party's official publication and their gloating at his first election victory in 1996. See, http://www.youdecide2008.com/2008/10/24/...

Oh a word about Ayers, who has been described as a "rabble-rouser" on the Statesman's Blog. A government agent, Larry Grathwohl, infiltrated the Weather Underground and asked during a meeting of 25 of their leaders that included Ayers and his wife, "What is going to happen when we take over the government?" He was told reeducation centers would be set up for "counter-revolutionaries" who opposed the new socialist order, and that everyone who was a die-hard capitalist would have to be eliminated. Ayers and his fellow "rabble-rousers" estimated they would have to execute 25 million incorrigible Americans. After the U.S. government's overthrow they also expected America to be invaded and occupied by Cuba, China and the Soviet Union. Ayers is a mass murderer wannabe. There is a video on Youtube.com of Grathwohl talking about how Weather Underground member's calmly planned the genocide of 25 million Americans at, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJn5b8_we...

Ayers' objective of overthrowing the government is the same today as it was in the 1960s and 70s, but instead of doing with with an armed revolution, he now wants to do it by covertly taking over the Democratic party with closet communists and socialists. Ayers was instrumental to Obama's successful entry into electoral politics. Obama has publicly repudiated the violent tactics engaged in by the Weather Underground, but not their objective of taking control of government in the U.S.

In 2006 Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn joined with the Communist Party USA, the DSA and other socialist organizations to form an activist support group that was intended to help Barack Obama win the US presidency. That organisation is the Movement for a Democratic Society. When Obama stands up and gives a speech unseen in the background is Ayers, Dohrn and many other likeminded people. http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2008/10/obam...

The best investigatative reporting in the world about Obama radical associations is by a website in New Zealand, http://newzeal.blogspot.com

-- Posted by FJGuy on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 5:45 PM

And I thought my hometown had changed.

Thank God Obama is in the lead.

I think it still boils down to many people would rather find any other excuse for not electing him, rather than admit they won't vote for him just because he is a black man.

Bush has destroyed our and the worlds economy, he has started 2 wars, one legitimate and the other a war of choice. By having us spread so thinly, and the troops sent back again and again he has endangered this country and has played every card that Bin Laden wanted him to. Look where we are today.

McCain is attached to Bush at the side. It will be more of the same failed policies.

-- Posted by RICK2RESCUE on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 6:00 PM

He's not just a black man. That is not a reason not to vote for Obama but it appears that may be the reason you are voting for him. The reason not is that he borders on being a Marxist in his beliefs and his associations.

I guess you could say Bush's policies have failed if you believe failing is not being attacked again or you could say Bin Laden has been successful if you asked where is he? Bush was handed these problems the same as the next President will be and if you think smooth talking will keep the extremist from attacking you are sadly mistaken and drinking too much Kool Aid.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 6:31 PM

Mm..I.B., isn't this the first time you've mentioned that Obama is a Marxist? I don't recall that criticism until FJ started his little lectures.

I'm sure you can find more than enough conspiracy theories on the internet to support your philosophy, FJ. It's just amazing how much is out there.

Whether it can be believed is another matter.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 8:02 PM

I didn't really say he is GL, I was saying that some of his beliefs and policies seem to border on Marxism. Don't they seem that way to you? I assume that he received his early training from his mother and her friends. He does seem to have an early association with people with very different views and seems to have continued that into his adult life. His ideas may work for a short period but they will eventually fail because you know a person who builds nuclear reactors will eventually begin to think that they should be paid more than a McDonalds employee.

You can't spread the wealth and make everyone equal. It just will not work. Why should I work if I have to give it away and why should I work if someone is going to give it to me.

Personally, I would eventually decide that there is no reason for me to try to improve my life and just wait on the hand out.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Oct 26, 2008, at 10:58 PM

Spreading the wealth around was probably not the best way of putting it.

Right now all of the wealth is held by a very few people who are determined to hold on to it.

Why should you and I bear the bulk of the tax burden while "Got Rocks" pays little or no taxes. I didn't realize there were so many in the area that made over $250,000 per year and would pay additional taxes.

The people of this community have more to gain under Obama's plan than they do under McCains. No one is giving anyone one money for not working, the working will be allowed to hold on to more of the money they do make.

Time to shut Fox News off, and get the facts and not twisted dis-information.

-- Posted by RICK2RESCUE on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 8:55 AM

According to the 2000 U.S. Census, Dexter has 25 families with income of $200,000 "or above." That's 0.9%.

305 families are in the poverty status. That's 14.8%

Two groups constitute 19% of the population - $10,000 a year and under, and the $15,000 to $24.999.

Of course, that was based on figures from 1999. I'm sure it's changed some since then.

Right now, I can't even listen to the radio while I work, because of the battering by political ads on both sides!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 12:53 PM

IBTruth is correct. "Spreading the wealth around" or "redistribution of the wealth" is socialissm. Progressive or graduated income tax and property tax really is legalized government based theft. I know that sounds radical. Our founding fathers foght and died for independence from British rule because of taxation.

I predict Obama will be elected and we will have a socialist -oops I mean Democratic- controlled congress with a fillubuster proof majority. The only free speach will be liberal free speech when th "Fairness Doctrine" is passed with little or know debate. All previous pro-life legislation will be reversed when the "Freedom of Choice Act" is passed. Democrats will be able to push their far left agenda via judges nominated by Obama and approved by congress.

I'll go out on a limb- Read Proverbs 24:21,22 and 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2. Could the international crisis scenario predicted by Biden to happen in the 1st 6 months of Obama's presidency be the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39? Magog is Russia. Persia is Iran. Gomer is Turkey. Ethiopia is an Arab alliance. These countries are to invade Israel in the last days. They have a pretty good chance of doing it with a liberal in the White House. Could Barak Hussein Obama be the man to forge a peace between the Palestinians and Israel, creating a Palestinian state?

-- Posted by swift on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 3:11 PM

Rick you better get off the Kool Aid. This guy is espousing election lies. There is no way you can give 95% of the people a tax break if 40% don't pay taxes now. His plan means that we are going to give 35% of the people money. Just plain give it to them.

To give the people that GL cited a tax break or just give them some money in other words you have to tax those above that. Me and you, have to give the money that we work for to those that don't have it.

No matter how much honey you put on it, it will still taste like, well you know what.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 3:59 PM

I talked with a small business owner tonight, a quick stop in particular. He said sure he grosses over 250,000 in gas but that is not profit. This is the kind of people Obama is talking about. This guy works seven days a week in a small business and guess what. He is going to pick up the cost of giving all those people who don' work enough to pay taxes some money. This is what you call spreading it around. I would seriously consider closing shop if I were him. I am not in favor of this.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:27 PM

Well, I'll tell ya what, guys, and this may come as a shock. When all this political blogging started, I, like dolphin (whom we probably won't see again until after the election), had not made up my mind AT ALL. Contrary to your opinion (and I know you won't believe this), I am NOT a Democrat, and I was NOT an Obama supporter. I just wanted to hear everything and make up my mind.

Then the hate barrage started coming in on my email from fine, upstanding Christian friends and collegues of mine. No matter how many times I checked the emails out and discovered that they were not true - and no matter how many times I sent my discovery back to the original sender, the hateful, spiteful, slanderous and untrue allegations just kept rolling in!

I got absolutely sick. I guess it all came to a head when I read about that horrible billboard at West Plains.

And that's where I am now. I find that I have hardened my mind to ANY political arguments on either side. I don't know who I'm going to vote for, but I'll tell you what - I don't think I'll ever get the bad taste out of my mouth after this election!

Now I think I shall follow dolphin's lead and vacate the premises. I will pray for us all.

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 5:49 PM

He isn't going to be giving out money folks!

He is offering a "tax break" to those folks netting, not grossing, $250,000 and under.

No one is getting a check in the mail, those netting under that amount will actually have less taken out of their checks. Those who are self employed will have to send less in quarterly.

Has your life gotten better the last 8 years???? The present is a failed economic plan, it is time to try another approach. Let's not give the tax breaks to the upper class and hope whatever change may trickle down is enough to change things. IT DOESN'T WORK.

Keep more of what you make.

And that is only one reason to consider Mr. Obama.

After listening to Mr. Bush stumble through speaches and watching him act like a hired hand from a dude ranch, might be nice to have someone represent our country who can speak well, and conduct himself in away befitting of our great nation!

-- Posted by RICK2RESCUE on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 10:33 PM

My life isn't any worse. Of course I work for a living and I have never financed a house which I couldn't afford and then blamed the lender.

I am actually better off today than I was eight years ago and feel safer too.

So, even if it is net which I don't think it is, you think that a person who makes more than that should have to pay more taxes so that a person who makes less than that would have to pay less and the people who don't pay any taxes at all would get a decrease in taxes or at least 35% of the people anyway since 40% pay no taxes at all. He is talking about giving money to them. Give them yours aif you want, but I want to keep mine. The government doesn't need any more tax money and they sure shouldn't be giving other peoples money away or spreading the wealth.

You think speaking well indicates competence and intelligence. Jimmy Carter could do that and I sure don't want to live through that again.

Sorry about the hate mail GL. Some people are less than intelligent. I would never do somethin like that. Of course I am not one of your Christian friends. They wouldn't like me either since I would be considered morally liberal.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Oct 27, 2008, at 11:44 PM

"Morally liberal" - What a concept! I don't believe I've ever heard it expressed quite like that. I would guess that the phrase applies to someone who isn't overly judgmental in trying to tell other people how to live their lives. Would I be correct?

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:23 AM

Sometimes the 'truth' is far from it!!!!

-- Posted by changedname on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 12:57 PM

No, Coconut, I'm not specifically referring to Republicans here - just people whose "moral conservatism" causes them to try to bully the rest of us into doing what THEY think is right. You don't have to be Republican to do that.

Look at our friend Mr. LeTruth: He's quite obviously a Conservative and probably a Republican, but I don't think I've ever heard him tell us how to live our lives. He seems willing to listen to someone else's point of view.

Dexterite - I missed something in that last statement. Sometimes the truth is far from....what? In English teacher terms, I don't know the antecedent for "it."

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 2:28 PM

Wow! We have two terms here on this blog- "morally liberal" and "moral coservative". Here's the possible definitions (excuse my poor grammar):

Morally liberal: (adj) believing that morality is relative to circumstances and/or time.

Moral liberal: (n) one who believes in or practices the social gospel

morally conservative: (adj) believing in moral absolutes based on a set of standards such as Ten Commandments that are unchanging in reference to circumstances and/or time.

moral conservative: (n) one who believes conservatively on social issues based on moral absolutes.

Now, anybody, left or right, conservative or liberal can push his or her values on other people or can just be a good example of those beliefs and teach them objectively. The media will report news and editorialize news based upon how the reporter feels about certain issues. I hope and pray that as a conservative I don't come across as being judgemental. However, I must still hold firmly to my beliefs. And if I feel that those beliefs are beneficial to society as a whole, I will no doubt promote those beliefs. Now I may seem to be rambling, but the point I make is this: Everybody who preaches, teaches, or comments on news or issues has an agenda of some kind or the other. In my opinion an agenda is the belief that one espouses and accepts as truth that should be promoted.

-- Posted by swift on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 4:14 PM

I might be a Republican or I could be a Democrat. I really don't like to be classified as either. There are certain things that each stand for that I think are OK and things that drive their platform like abortion that would make my beliefs unacceptable to either party.

One thing I am 100% against is more tax. Do you realize the Boston Tea Party was caused by the imposition of a 3% tax?

So, it should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that I am totally against income redistribution through taxation laws or spreading the wealth as some would call it. I am not a rich person and I do not meet the supposed $250,000.00 income level, but I do not want your money and I don't want you to have to give yours to me.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 5:08 PM

This is a great discussion. Swift, thanks for those definitions. I could feel my brain expand as I read them. I agree with your assessment of the terms, and I like having a definite meaning assigned to them.

Now that you mention it, I've searched back through my past acquaintances and have remembered a very, very liberal person who also tried to push his values on others.

I.B., I feel the same way about not wanting to be classified as Democrat, even though some critics say that if you call yourself an "independent," you're just being wishy-washy.

As soon as someone hears what party you belong to, they immediately make certain assumptions, which may or may not be true.

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 6:58 PM

GL you are absolutely correct! Democrats can be very pushy. Perhaps the most famous leader of a Democratic party in history was a talented artist who read works by Cervantes, Jonathan Swift, Shakespeare, Ibsen, etc. that were among the 16,000 books in his personal library. He was intelligent, cultured, personally charming, and perhaps the most effective public speaker in history. But he was also a bit egomaniacal, writing his autobiography when he was 35, and he was very dedicated to pushing his values on others. He was also leader of the National-Socialist Democratic Workers' Party ... Adolf Hitler.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 7:38 PM

Hi GL...surprised to see me? lol.

My reason for actually breaking into this blog would be to ask one question of FJ and LeTruth and Swift. Since we're on the big subject of taxes, I'd like to say that I think Missouri's ways SUCK! I understand that Michigan is not exactly the best example to use, but I know someone there. Anyway, how can Missouri order us to pay taxes on a newly purchased vehicle, then order us to pay taxes on it again year after year? Michigan doesn't do this. You buy a house, you pay your taxes on it, you're done. You buy a car, you pay your taxes on it, you're done. I don't like how Missouri does it whether it does our state better than Michigan's way does or not.

By the way GL, I still refuse to comment on the election. I'm SOOOO done with that!

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Tue, Oct 28, 2008, at 10:51 PM

I think it must be the personal property tax that you are talking mrs. The taxation from federal, state and local is totally out of hand. Most of the taxes you don't notice because you just aren't paying attention, like the tax you pay when you use your telephone or the tax on a gallon of gas. It just looks like the price for the item. In some places you pay a tax on water consumption, flush the toilet and down the drain goes your money. Everything you do is taxed in addition to your payroll taxes. Isn't your husband a truck driver? Ask him how many gallons of fuel he used on his last trip and count the millions of trucks on the road every day. Who really profits from fuel consumption?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 12:08 AM

Good to hear that you're still out there, watching, dolphin. We'll see you more, I'm sure, when all this MADNESS is over. That is, if it's ever over...

One year our farm did so poorly that we couldn't pay our property taxes on time, SO we couldn't get our vehicle renewal tags, SO my husband got stopped on 25 by a patrolman, who had his hand on his GUN and backed my husband up to the very edge of the highway.

Of course, he got a ticket and had to go to court, where he pointed out the unfairness of the law. What sense did it make to take away a person's right to drive, because he didn't have the money to pay his taxes, when he needed his vehicle to make the money to pay them??? I think the court fined him something like three dollars, and he said the judge was quite sympathetic.

Missouri is involved in many, MANY such unfair practices! It pains me to say this, but ours is NOT a "user-friendly" state!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 7:30 AM

Yes, I.B...it's the personal property taxes I speak of. The man in Michigan I spoke of was baffled at the fact that we have to pay taxes on what we own every year. I just assumed it was that way everywhere. But, of course, you know what they say about assumptions....

GL, if my husband were an owner-operator instead of a company man, we'd be in the same boat as your husband was. We wouldn't be able to afford the property taxes on the property that makes us our money, nor could we afford for him to get a ticket, or lose the very license he uses to make money either. It truly is a vicious cycle, isn't it? Thank God your husband got a reasonable judge....

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 8:53 AM

I agree with you, Mrs. Dolphin on the personal property tax. I was raised in California; my wife in Illinois. I went to Bible College in Illinois, pastored churches in Arizona and New Mexico and never had to pay personal property tax and show a personal property tax reciept when renewing my driver's license. So I was rather shocked when we moved to Eldon Missouri in '91 and had to get a waver saying we payed no property tax for '90 before I could get a MO driver's lic.! Fact is, it was the first time in my life I had to go to three different offices before getting a driver's license. It is a very archaic and inconvenient tax. I believe it needs to be scrapped.

Truth is correct about why our Revolutionary War was fought. Most of our soldiers were property owners and farmers. Most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were rich men. Now we have a presidential candidate who believes in the Marxist theory of taking from the rich to give to the poor. Unfortunately, we have folks in our country who actually believe that this is good economics. Hmmmm! Didn't the Bolshevics promise change? Didn't Hitler promise change? I'm going out on a limb- Won't the anti-Christ promise change?

-- Posted by swift on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 3:18 PM

Whew, I won't go that far, but I am glad everyone understands about the tax thing and you should never doubt that no matter what Obama says taxes will be raised under his administration. The tax increase will come from Congress and there is no way that he will veto a tax increase from a Democratic controlled Congress.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 4:35 PM

So, ALL change is bad! Right? Interesting concept. What IS, SHOULD be, forever and forever.

Several British kings and (esp) queens ruled a very, very looooooong time and kept things the same for 50-60 years. By your criteria, that's a good plan, right?

I guess we should just keep Bush in office until he grows old and dies...

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 6:46 PM

However, I do appreciate your insight into your experience living in several other states, swift. I suspected that not all states required their citizens to PAY OUT THE NOSE for every aspect of their pitiful lives!

I think that would make a good blog, if someone had the guts to post it! Any takers???

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 8:43 PM

Well GL I guess you could say that change is not always a good thing. Not only do I have a lack of trust in Obama, he is actually beginning to creep me out.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 29, 2008, at 11:22 PM

If you listen to all this last-minute panic prophet of doom stuff, I don't doubt that he would "creep you out," I.B. It's the stuff of Stephen King novels -- which is actually quite timely, I guess, since tomorrow is Halloween.

However, all the scarey effects are being furnished by his opponents, and I discovered early on that their information is not reliable.

I was talking to a dear Republican friend of mine yesterday, and he very naively said, "But there are laws against slander! They can't say it if it isn't true!" Hahahaha! Imagine believing that! ...Sometimes I think my friend has been living under a rock...

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 7:43 AM

Maybe it is the opposition that tell things about him, but he sure won't. His association with less than admirable friends, my opinion does it for me. I doubt that he could be a member of the military with friends like his because he could not be granted a security clearance and yet he can be President.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 3:57 PM

After reading these comments the last week or so, I must ask a question.

Is anyone getting their news from anywhere else than FOX NEWS and what they hear that idiot Rush harping about.

Quit drinking the Kool Aide!

-- Posted by RICK2RESCUE on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 7:45 PM

Rick, number 1, I don't have cable, Number 2, I can't tune into Rush. All my stuff comes from research, beliefs, and me having the ability to form my OWN opinion.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 9:16 PM

GL, I listened to AirAmerica everyday and heard Bush, Cheney, Rice, et al derided everyday for a period of years, but it seemed like reliable information was being provided about a number of current issues. (AA can be listened to over the Internet.) Then AirAmerica became the "Hate Sarah Palin" network after McCain selected her. A cross-section of Demo spokespersons spewed out more venomous hate 24/7 against Palin than I have ever heard expressed against any individual or group in my life. The Demos dislike of Bush and Cheney, and the Jews attitude toward Hitler and other Nazis is low key compared to the Demos intense hatred of Palin. The endless avalanche of hate against Palin that had no relationship to the reality of her life caused me to have an epiphany ... hard-core Demos don't "support" Obama, they are "followers" of his. His "followers" see Palin as a threat to derailing Obama from what they believe is his pre-ordained destiny to be installed as President. It also dawned on me how much Obama shares Jim Jones' skill to hypnotize susceptible listeners with his voice. (PBS' "American Experience" had an excellent program about Jones and Jonestown last year, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/jonestown/ )

So for the first time I began finding out what I could about Obama. I have written about some of what I've discovered on Madeline's blogs. The most striking thing about Obama is the degree to which he has concealed or lied about important details of his past.

The Los Angeles Times has endorsed Obama, so it is significant that their reporter who has traveled with Obama's press entourage for many months and sees him daily wrote a column two days ago (Oct. 28) revealing that HE DOESN'T KNOW WHO OBAMA IS! Obama engages in meaningless small talk with the reporters assigned to cover him, so for information they have to rely on campaign Press Releases, the content of Obama's speeches, or what other people say. Reporter Peter Nicholas wrote in part: "First Clinton, then John McCain made the argument that Obama is someone we don't really know. Ironically, those of us who were sent out to take his measure in person can't offer much help in answering who he is, or if he is ready. The barriers set in place between us and him were just too great." http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-...

What don't we know about Obama? It is hard to know where to begin.

Where was he born? Hawaii or Kenya? We don't know.

What country is Obama a citizen of? The U.S., Indonesia or Kenya, or more than one? We don't know.

What is Obama's real name? There is solid evidence Barack Obama is an alias and his legal name is Barry Soetoro. But we don't know.

He has lied about not being a member of the New Party (founded by the Democratic Socialists of America) when his political career was launched in the home of William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who he has lied about not having a long relationship with. Obama has also lied about his long-standing close association with Palestinian activist Rashid Khalidi, who he and Michelle have entertained many times in their home. The LA Times is refusing to release a video of a 2003 banquet in LA in which Obama praised Khalidi, and that was also attended by Ayers and Dohrn. By itself this video could publicly reveal enough about the real Obama to derail his election chances.

Obama has refused to produce the following information: his physical or mental health records; his admission or class records from the three universities he attended -- Occidental, Columbia and Harvard; his official public papers or correspondence as a state legislator in Illinois; his client list as an attorney or his billing records; his application to the Illinois state bar; and, donors to his campaign under $200 (The RNC and McCain have both released lists of their small donors.). In addition, Columbia University claims that Obama's college dissertation has disappeared from their archives and Obama claims he doesn't have a copy of it.

Obama's reliance on privacy laws to block disclosure of official records of his life suggests that he intended for his semi-fictitious autobiographies to be the beginning and end of what he wants people to think his life has been. He has masterfully run an affirmative action political campaign by using his skin color to discourage investigation by major media organizations that don't want to be labeled as racist.

Who is Barack Obama (or whatever his name really is)? That is not a partisan question. It is of grave importance to every American. But Obama has shown nothing but the most naked contempt for Americans who want to make an intelligent voting decision. He obviously believes their are enough voters who will vote for him based merely on his voice and rhetoric, his youthfulness, the color of his skin, or his party affiliation.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:21 PM

I have had an epiphany, too, FJ. You are suffering from a severe obsession and are not capable of rational thought.

As for all that hatred spewing toward Palin, the Republicans were doing it to Obama LONG before Palin was chosen for v.p.

Hang it up or direct it to someone other than me! I turned that stuff off weeks ago!

You remind me so much of my brother that it's positively uncanny. You both think too much!

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 10:34 PM

GL, I understand your tiredness of all this campaign BS. But sit back and think for just a minute. Have you really heard anything like this said about John McCain? I haven't. The worst thing people say about John McCain is that he is associated with George W. Which I understand some of the frustration people have with Bush. But if that's the worst thing you can say about the man, come on....I think it's going to be very interesting come Tuesday night.

-- Posted by BonScott on Thu, Oct 30, 2008, at 11:17 PM

Okay, look at it like this, Bon. What does the smear campaign tell you about the ones who are putting all those atrocious stories out there? What kind of weird psychos would circulate that crap? We're supposed to swallow all that superstitious mumbo jumbo without checking it? I got another vicious, untrue email the other day from a person whose position in the community should make him behave in a better manner!

My naive friend said, "I haven't heard John McCain say anything bad." McCain doesn't HAVE to engage in smear campaigns. His supporters are doing the hatchet job.

I don't care what the polls say. I see no way that any candidate can prevail against the kind of vicious, slanderous, prejudicial, voodoo whisper campaign that's been waged against Obama.

And as for FJ's ranting & raving about a Democratic "hate campaign" against Palin: HA! That's really been effective, for sure! None of them have accused her of being the anti-Christ, the spawn of the Devil...the Voodoo Queen of Alaska... Criticism of her has been the same 'ole political clap trap that they always roll out this time of year.

What's happened to Obama goes waaaaaaaaay beyond that! I have NEVER seen anything like it!

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 7:12 AM

I agree with you goat, it has been pretty bad. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm also not going to take up for the guy. You could play this out a thousand different ways, but like you just said, why is it like that this year? From the Republican side, it wasn't this bad towards Bill Clinton. I know it's not all true, but you have to admit it makes you some what curious.

-- Posted by BonScott on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 8:00 AM

Well, I'm sick of it, and I can't go anywhere to get away from it! I heard another outlandish story this morning. I feel as if I'm living in some awful twilight zone episode; any minute, we'll start burning witches again!

I want to stop reading the blogs and retire from them, like dolphin has done, but I can't stay away.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 1:53 PM

Shouldn't have those kinds of friends GL, not the ones who promote change through anarchy anyway and make no doubt about it they are his friends.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Oct 31, 2008, at 2:46 PM

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Corey Noles, staff writer for The Daily Statesman and Editor of The North Stoddard Countian, is the author of a regular baseball/St. Louis Cardinals column and also uses his blog to sound off on various happenings in sports. He also operates a weekly baseball mailbag column.

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