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Tuesday, July 22, 2014

And now for a touchy subject...

Posted Friday, November 7, 2008, at 8:47 AM

Before I even start talking, I feel it is important to make it clear that I want this to be a constructive discussion not filled with hateful things. If it gets out of hand I will just delete the blog. We've never had a problem with it before I just wanted to be up front.

Ok...In the three days since the election I have some things that are really eating me. I have received, since Sen. Obama was elected, some 40 blatantly racist text messages.

It's not just the racist stuff that bothers me, it's also just the general lies that float around in e-mails from both sides of the aisle. There was soo much trash floating around about both candidates and it just annoys me because I know there are people who base their votes on that trash.

I've heard more racist jokes in the past week than in my entire life. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to jokes I can be a good sport at anyone's expense, even my own. But at a certain point you have to draw a line between a funny joke and true hate.

I've known all of my life that there was still a lot of this type of thinking in the area, but I guess I just hadn't expected it to be as bad as it seems this week.

We even have several teenagers in town flying giant rebel flags from their vehicles that weren't there Tuesday morning. Maybe it's not meant that way, but something tells me it's probably not just a sudden resurgence of southern pride.

At the same time I'd also like to say that I'm impressed by the number of people who have accepted the idea of an African-American in power. Me personally, I could care less and I think that's how the majority of us feel here, but it's hard to move into the future for some people.

Regardless of how you voted or whether you like the guy or not, he is our next President and should be admired or hated based on his performance and actions.

I like to think that before a person casts their vote, they do some research and base their vote on what they believe the truth to be because not everything you see or read is necessarily true.

I don't mean to sound like I'm preaching, I was just kind of annoyed by some things and thought I would share my thoughts.

What do you guys think? I've debated for a day and a half on whether to write this blog, but this morning decided what the heck, so pipe in folks!


Comments
Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

I didn't vote for President elect Obama. I wish him well when he takes over this office,

It is an AWESOME responsibility. I don't like the hate that was spewed out either.

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 9:38 AM

I grew up in Dexter, my husband grew up in Bloomfield.

I have a lot of relatives the still live there. My family was always very racist and some still are.I was a teenager in the early 70's...most of us began to have a different mindset.We were rebelling then.

I have noticed some of the young people now are using their own minds not just reciting what they have been taught by their parents.

Hopefully when this generation grows up and is running the world there will be less racism. But it is going to take time.

-- Posted by Gemini on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:02 AM

As a white person, I'm ashamed when these things happen; but I suspect we'll be seeing some of the same from the other perspective as that population is more emboldened. I was raised to believe in equality, and the OJ Simpson trial was a big awakening to me about how deeply divided the races were at that time in this country. I don't think that's changed, and I don't know what the answer is. There are a lot of us who want fairness, but the extremists are always the ones who make the noise. We all need to pray for our country and guidance for our leaders.

-- Posted by gardengirl on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:15 AM

I guess what I don't understand is that anyone would still be surprised that there is racism in this country. (It seems to me that sexism played a part in the election, also.) Corey, I am unclear why you're receiving so many racist comments, though. Of course freedom of speech is still a right, isn't it? And what election has ever been held without massive amounts of mud-slinging. I do wish that we could be a country where mass emotionalism and common ignorance is not the deciding factor in many areas. (not necessarily referring to this election)

-- Posted by ct on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:24 AM

I think a lot of people did not vote for him because of his race, but on the other hand it is fairly obvious that a lot of people did vote for him because of his race.

It doesn't concern me. He is now our and my President. Don't want to hear it from another country though.

I think it will be OK for me to criticize him if he does something wrong, but as in the election it seems that if you do you will be labeled a racist.

I still have questions that I think went without an answer and since he did win the election I am pretty sure they will never be answered.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:53 AM
Corey Noles' response:
That was definitely the other thing that bothered me, I.B.. During the election anyone who criticized anything he did was labeled a racist and I think that had some to do with why the media threw him so many softballs. Some were in love with him, yes, but plenty of others were gun shy. A journalist labeled as a racist could kiss his or her career good bye.

I agree, I.B. I don't recall the color of our past presidents keeping anyone from criticizing them. I keep wondering what the modern definition of American would be(?)

-- Posted by ct on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 11:03 AM

When i was in college, during the summer I would go down to New Madrid every day and work for my uncle. One day when we went out to the local Dairy Queen for lunch, I was sitting there eating and a big Lincoln Continental pulled up outside in the parking lot. A very well dressed african american man came up to the carry out window and placed his order. He then proceeded to get back in his car and eat his lunch. I found out later that he could not come in the DQ because he was black. I also found out later that the man was a Mr.Travis Howard who was from ,of all places Howardville,Mo. I now know that Mr. Howard was not only the founder of Howardville, he was also the father of Elston Howard who later became the catcher for the New York Yankees and later on, the manager of the New York Yankees. How ironic and stupid that a man of his stature had to eat a cheeseburger in his car while a college freshman with no major accomplishments in his life was allowed to eat some french fries while sittting down in the Dairy Queen. I have never forgotten that moment in my life nor will I ever, hopefully, forget it. Last tuesday, I had the honor of voting for a black american for president of the UNITED States of America. As i stood in that voting booth, that moment in time that occurred in New Madrid came flooding back into my memory. Not only did i cast my ballot for our first black president, it seemed to make me feel just a little bit better about that hot summer day back in the 60's, when a proud black man sat in his car eating lunch while a young white boy got to sit inside for no other reason except for the color of his skin. What a strange world we live in.

-- Posted by bwkingdingo on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:02 PM

We had moved back to Dexter while our son and daughter went through high school. After graduation my daughter got a job managing a rent to own store in Sikeston. A black young man worked for her and they became friends. I met him several times and he was a good kid. His mother was disabled and every day he stopped by to check on her, see if she needed meds or food.

He had started dating a white girl that just so happened to be the daughter of a sheriff of a neighboring county.

Around the first of Dec. he came up missing. No one heard from him in months. In may I contacted the T.V. station in Cape(CBS..I forget the call letters)I said he had been missing and he would have contacted his mother at least. I said I was very worried about him. They did a story about him.

I talked to his family afterwards and they put me in contact with the head of the local NAACP. I talked to him and he said that he had asked them to do a story about him in Jan. and they refused.

But when I did it as a white woman they did the story.It was not the reporters they fought to get the story done,it was management.

Then a friend that worked and lived in Sikeston overheard some info. I called the head of the local NAACP and he put me in contact with a local FBI agent. When ever we had conversations I would have to use a corded phone. He kept telling me not to let anyone know cause I could be in danger. After a while of this and not getting any results, I thought to myself....hmmmmm...on T.V. the FBI witnesses are usually killed and no one knows why. So with my stubborn Irish ancestors backing me I went to different places in Dexter that I knew, like Wink's convenience store, grocery stores. I told everyone I could about it. I said I would not shut up until his mom had some peace. At least have a body to bury.

2 weeks later some "hunters" found his body in an old broken down silo in Sikeston. They said they saw a deer go in there so they followed the deer in and found him.(I am not a hunter but my husband said no deer would have went in there with the scent of a human there)

You may think this happened a long time ago but this was in the late 90's.

Corey, if you want to confirm this just email me and I can give you the name of the man who is the head of the NAACP in Sikeston.

They have yet to find the killer.

-- Posted by Gemini on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 1:54 PM

Wow!

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:08 PM

My "Wow" was for kingdingo's story, but my comment got pre-empted; the story about the killing in the 90's is too horrifying for a mere "Wow." That ones scares the crap out of me!!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:15 PM

Corey, if the blog stays reasonably well-behaved, you might consider just "spot deleting" the comments that push it too far. So they gripe about being "censored;" they should behave themselves. I shutter to think what's on Topix.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 2:19 PM

It is not just words, flags or jokes. It is real danger to people.

I would never have thought that was still going on if it had not happened to me.

-- Posted by Gemini on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 3:12 PM

Wednesday after the election, the blacks at work (Tyson) were exuberant with the election of the first black man to be president. I work side by side blacks and everyone of them know that I didn't vote for Obama because I answered them when they asked. One in particular put it into perspective when she told me that, no matter who we voted for or how we think of Obama, the fact that a black was able to win the presidency shows that all of us can achieve success regardless of race. Another said, "I think anyone who voted for McCain must be racist". Well, my answer to her was, "If anybody votes for or against a candidate based on race, it is racism. I didnot vote for Obama because I disagreed with his economic policies and because he is not pro-life." Political and racial strife has been absent at work, for which I'm thankful.

-- Posted by swift on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 4:38 PM

Hey gl, I posted a comment on Dexter Topix today. My name is swiftattyson on there. I've got some Constitution Party stats on Corey's news story about election results. Anyhow, Dexter Topix is something else-whew!

-- Posted by swift on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 4:41 PM

I've tried to get on Topix, swift, but I have dial-up, and it just doesn't work. That's probably a good thing, but I would like to SEE.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 7, 2008, at 10:00 PM

I will laud my enemies and they will become my friends; I will encourage my friends and they will become my brothers. I will always dig for reasons to appluad; never will I scratch for excuses to gossip. When I am tempted to criticize I will bite my tongue; when I am moved to praise I will shout from the roofs.

(Og Mandino)

We can't improve the country if we provoke each other to anger, We can disagree without being disagreeable. When we trash each other we will not move forward. We all need to work together, there are other countries waiting and wanting us to fall apart from within.

-- Posted by mythought on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 9:28 AM
Corey Noles' response:
Very well said

We have a new president, pray that American will recover from this financial crisis and be strong in the days ahead.

-- Posted by changedname on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 9:56 AM
Corey Noles' response:
That's a good attitude. I'm glad to see as many people on here thinking positive as are. That's a good sign for the future.

Pray without ceasing!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 11:07 AM

I'd like to frame that quote, mythought! That is beautiful!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 11:27 AM

I have that quote on the wall at home and at work, I read it every morning before I start my day.

And Corey, Thank You for your response

-- Posted by mythought on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 5:43 PM

Did anyone see Jon Rust's column "The Way I See It" in Friday's Statesman? Wow! And that from a Republican! Very, very nice! He ended it with yet another prayer for this new president: "Let God hold him safe - and give him guidance and wisdom to lead our nation." He called on us to do our own part for the future.

He praised both Obama and McCain for their speeches, which he said would be printed in the Southeast Missourian in their entirety Sunday. I have no doubt that both the speeches will go down in history. Some of you may be aware that Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address was ridiculed by his critics at the time he gave it.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 6:26 PM

OK, enough with the making sweet to one another. How about this one, "I have yet begun to fight".

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 8:58 PM

In reference to....?

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 9:34 PM

I.B. Now can you tell us who said that? lol

-- Posted by Gemini on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 9:46 PM

By the way, my daughter reminded me that what happened to her friend was the first part of Dec. in 1999...they found him later in 2000.

-- Posted by Gemini on Sat, Nov 8, 2008, at 10:49 PM

That is uncomfortably recent. I can hardly stand to think that such things could happen in this part of the country that I love.

I.B. is quoting Capt. John Paul Jones in the Revolutionary War: "I have not yet begun to fight!" However, the relevance of the quote eludes me.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 7:18 AM

I was just wondering if he knew whom he was quoting...lol

So many people will quote things then have no clue as to their origin.

Also the ones that quote something they say is in the Bible and it isn't. lol

-- Posted by Gemini on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 8:40 AM

I totally understand what it means and who said it. Not surrendering anytime soon. Our systems is an adversarial system, if you hadn't noticed and it will not work any other way. Maybe you want everyone to think and act like you and have your beliefs and morals, but that would not be a good place.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 9:08 AM

You're right, I.B., and no, I don't want you to believe the way I do. The system only works if there are checks and balances.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 9:56 AM

A friend sends me a quote every day. This one today is just right for the times now...

"Competition has been shown to be useful up to a certain point and no

further, but cooperation, which is the thing we must strive for today,

begins where competition leaves off."

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

-- Posted by Gemini on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 2:38 PM

In my case I believe cooperation means everyone is represented. I think in your case cooperation means letting the Democratic party and Obama do whatever they want without being opposed. That is just not going to happen. The competition must continue. A single party system always fails, unless it's the Catholic church.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 3:43 PM

You are going to oppose anything President Obama proposes?

What about non-partisanship? That is what we are going to have to have if we are to save our country from going down hill.

It is time to put all politics aside, work together to get done what has to be done.

I am neither Democrat or Republican... I am an American. I vote for the person that can get the job done.

-- Posted by Gemini on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 3:50 PM

Nope, not everything, but tax increases on anyone, which includes allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire, abortion on demand, same sex marriage, reversal of the don't ask don't tell policy in the military and pulling out of Iraq before it is stable and embarrassing our troops the way it was done in Vietnam, ban on drilling in ANWR or anywhere else, increasing taxes or restrictions on the use of coal, and government controlled health care are just a few of the things I have opposition to.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 4:03 PM

So in other words you are against anything for the people...

-- Posted by Gemini on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 5:23 PM

I voted for Obahma, not for his race, but for a new start in America. Here is the way I feel about him: We didn't elect a black man as president, we elected a president who happens to be black. I hope and pray others will just view him and support him as OUR president. I think he can help America!

-- Posted by ballmom2009 on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 6:00 PM

That's your opinion. I think drilling for oil, lower taxes, traditional marriage, mining and utilizing coal for energy, an honorable withdrawal of troops from Iraq when it is stable, having a military in which you don't have to worry about wherther the person standing next to you in the shower is getting aroused and not making someone else pay for your health care is for the people.

Sure there are exceptions for everything like abortions in the case of incest or rape and health care for the elderly and children, but that is not the proposal is it.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 6:45 PM

We dont know what the plans are as yet, please let's wait and see and then speak out. Dont jump to conclusions, I was in the Korean conflict and gays didnt bother anyone,,,,dont know what all the fuss is about, we soldiers handled things the proper way back then.

-- Posted by changedname on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 7:39 PM

I am not jumping to any conclusions. We do know what the plans are if you listened to the election and looked at his voting record.

I have seen how gays used to be handled and I sure don't want to say I agree with reverting back to those days.

He actually doesn't have to do anything, he can just let the democratically controlled Senate and Congress pass the bills and he can just not veto them, essentially voting present.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Nov 9, 2008, at 9:04 PM

Mickey Mouse could have won the last election over the Republicans.

-- Posted by changedname on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:22 AM

Well maybe, if he had 250 million dollars to spend on advertisement instead of taking the public funds which he had said he would do. It is pay back time now. So, let's see who Mickey Mouse has to pay for the cheese.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 11:26 AM

He'll pay for his cheese by raising taxes and spreading wealth. I voted against him because I do not believe in bigger government and socialism. If it wasn't about race, than why did the number of new black votes increase by 20%, but the new white vote only by 7%(when whites are obviously the majority)?

-- Posted by mobrigade on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 12:39 PM

If you don't like Socialism then don't except Social Security checks,or the stimulus package that Pres. Obama will be sending out.

The only people that should be complaining about the tax raises are the people making over 250,000 a year.

I have found that the people that are calling him a Marxist,Socialist, don't really know what that means. Go to the library or google it, then you can talk with some info behind you.

-- Posted by Gemini on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 1:03 PM

I.B. Le Truth rantings are exactly what is wrong with the Republican party. Until folks like that are ignored, the party doesn't stand a chance of winning. The silent majority of Americans want to get on with it, get behind Obama, present a united America to the world, and work together to solve some of these problems.

-- Posted by L2L on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 2:24 PM

Gemini, Obama is a socialist, but....so is McCain. Neo-conservatives like McCain are nothing more than liberals in conservative dress. This is one reason why paleo-conservatives, more commonly known as American Patriot Movement, are not Republicans. We are independent conservatives who believe the way Barry Goldwater believed when he said, "Extremism in pursuit of liberty is no vice and moderation is no virtue". That may not be an exact quote. The Republican Party is the party of moderates paying lip service to the Religious Right to continue getting their votes, much like the Democratic Party is the party of leftists paying lip service to black America to continue getting their votes. By the way, our founding fathers fought for independence from Britain because of taxes that weren't near as high as taxes are now for our socialist occupied federal government.

Mobrigade is right. 95% of blacks voted for Obama inspite of the fact that most black Americans are conservative on social issues and Obama is liberal.

Forwhatitsworth, Constitutionalists and other members of the American Patriot Movement are not going to support Obama. Go ahead and support his tax and spend policies, guncontrol legislation, anti-Pro-Life legislation, and other parts of his far left agenda. We aint!!

-- Posted by swift on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 3:02 PM

We've lived through a lot of unpleasant days the past few years, give the new man on the block a chance and change everything in 4 years if you aren't satisfied. We've survived the last 8 years.

-- Posted by changedname on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 3:13 PM

What a joke to imply that the Republicans are the party which favors less government! I.B., did you gag on that statement??

How long has it been since we saw a Republican who cut back on the role of the government and reduced the number of agencies that suck our blood??

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 3:47 PM

As for all the money spent on advertisements - Did you see 60 Minutes last night? (Oh, no - CBS is too liberal - can't watch it! Wouldn't believe it if you did!) Look at that organization of volunteers Obama had working for him! They got out and planned the campaign in detail, even laying the groundwork in Republican strongholds which were considered impossible for Democrats!

But, oh no, it's all about the money, isn't it? Keep racking up the excuses to make up for the real reasons the Republicans lost! Heaven forbid you should admit that some of the responsibility lies on their own shoulders!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 3:57 PM

Well, gl! Some good observations! In all reality, the Republican Party has got to take the blame for it's loss of Congress in '06 and it's loss of the White House. The GOP legislators borrowed and spent like their Democratic counter-parts. Reagan was the last Republican president to make any real cuts in government spending. Either the Republican Party gets back to it's principles or one of the two larger third parties (Constitution or Libertarian) will eventually take it's place as the conservative major party.

-- Posted by swift on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 4:10 PM

I.B. LeTruth, I saw your post on Dexter Topix- Our New President.

-- Posted by swift on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 4:17 PM

I don't know what ranting that I have been doing and I have never called Obama anything. I will tell you the truth and you can say anything you want to about it. Some of the programs are socialism and some of the programs that have been implemented in the last couple of months are socialism.

You should have no doubt that your taxes are going to go up. If you watched the news today you would have noticed that the talk of raising taxes by his advisors has already started.

I wish everyone would have been so cooperative and willing to work together for the last eight years. All we seen from the Democratic party was fillibuster until they got in power two years ago and what have they done since then? They are just a little responsible for the things that are wrong too. Or are we just going to forget that they have had one third of the power?

As for the silent majority electing Obama I think you know better than that. You can look at the statistics and the electoral map as well as I can so I won't tell you what to believe with your own self deceiving eyes.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 5:02 PM

GL, it wasn't me that said the Republican party favored less government. I have said a lot of things, but I didn't say that. Some of the things I believe in and am against may not be acceptable to the Republican party.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 5:15 PM

Ooops, sorry, I.B. That was mobrigade who said that! "I voted against him because I do not believe in bigger government and socialism."

Guess I jumped to conclusions, didn't I? I should have checked back over the postings. Does that mean I like to argue with you???

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 5:34 PM

Swift...you say you are part of the American Patriot Movement.So which one are you...White Supremacist,KKK? I looked it up and that is scary as hell to me.

I.B. I have heard people say that about that the Democratic Senate has not accomplished anything. They tried over and over but Bush would veto anything they sent. He would even say he was going to veto it before he even read it.

-- Posted by Gemini on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 5:34 PM

GL, I think you do. You must be a hard headed Republican.

Gemini come on, how many bills has Bush ever vetoed? That was his major problem as far as I am concerned. He was afraid to use his veto authority.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 5:56 PM

Here is a list...

George W. Bush

1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).

2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of... H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.

3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.

4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).

5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.

6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).

7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[18] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).

8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[19]. A later version of the bill that changed a minor provision of which the President disapproved was quickly passed by Congress (H.R. 4986) and was enacted with the President's approval as Pub.L. 110-181 on 28 January 2008.

9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[20][21] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.

10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[22][23] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-234 over the President's veto. Due to a clerical error, this act was repealed by Pub.L. 110-246.

11. 18 June 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6421, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill, re-passed by Congress to correct a clerical error in HR 2419.[24] Overridden by House, 317-109 (284 votes required). Overridden by Senate, 80-14 (63 votes needed). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-246 over the President's veto.

12. July 15, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 6331, Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act.[25] Overridden by House, 383-41 (283 votes required.) Overridden by Senate, 70-26 (64 votes required). Enacted as Pub.L. 110-275 over the President's veto.

-- Posted by Gemini on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:01 PM

Further breakdown of some of his vetoes...

Bush Vetoes Bill Banning Torture...http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/08/national/main3919474.shtml

Heating Bills help for the poor...

http://www.pulp.tc/html/bush_veto_hits_h...

Medicare...

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/07/15/b...

Bush's veto strategy...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article...

-- Posted by Gemini on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:19 PM

Ooooooeeeeeee! Gemini, you are smokin' HOT!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:27 PM

Thats all you could find. OK, research how many the Presidents before him vetoed. Good ones, most people would agree with all those vetoes. There were reasons for them. There were bad things in some of those bills. It wasn't just the bill, it was stuff that was added in some of them.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:54 PM

The way things look now, maybe they should have listened to him.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 10, 2008, at 8:56 PM

Glad you wrote this piece except for the part "he is our next President and should be admired or hated based on his performance and actions." Hated???

-- Posted by Keating on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 12:05 AM
Corey Noles' response:
Ok so maybe hated was a bit strong. I meant exactly what goat lady said, base your like or dislike on his actions. Simply put.

I.B., when you commented on how Bush didn't use his veto power enough, you may have been referring to his first four years in office, when he didn't veto ANY of his own party's bills. Four years of straight sailing. I seriously doubt that the Democrats can dismantle ALL that the Republicans did during that time.....but they can make a dent in it! (Do you hear maniacal laughter in the halls?)

Keating, I took Corey to mean that Obama should be judged (for good or bad) on his ACTIONS, not his RACE.

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 6:24 AM

I believe the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that people are saying President-elect Obama is black and African American. What about the 50% that is Caucasian? He is only 1/8th black, which doesn't really matter to me. However, why does everyone play the race card just to fit their own agenda? Whether it be for him or against him, this whole election was about the race card............

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 12:55 PM

Gemini, I am not a white supremicist or ever even thought of joining the klan! Most of those of us who consider ourselves as part of the APM are not racist. But now you've stuck your foot in an area you should not have.

The Democratic Party was started in 1828 as one of the two divisions in the Democratic Republican Party. Andrew Jackson was responsible for removing thousands of Native Americans off their lands and moving them on what is called the Trail of Tears. The Democratic Party was the party of slavery. Many southern democrats were segregationists during the early years of the Civil Rights Movement. In fact, did you know that Democratic Senator Robert Byrd had been a member of the klan?

I am vice-chairman of the Prohibition National Committee of the small but oldest third party still in existence. the Prohibition Party. It has always stood against all forms of racism. We were on the ballot in only 6 states; presidential candidate, Gene Amondson only got a little over 600 votes. There is a possibility, I'll be switching party affiliation to the Constitution Party. Alan Keyes, a black man almost recieved the Constitution Party nomination for president. When he didn't, he went over to the American Independent Party and became their presidential candidate. Both of those parties would be considered as part of the APM. There are white supremacists in the APM as well as the two major parties, but I'm not a white supremacist!

-- Posted by swift on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 2:56 PM

BootHeelRedHead, if the election had been "all about race," as you say it was, Obama would never have won! It was actually more about the Republicans, even, than the Democrats. So many, many people voted AGAINST a party that they felt had used its power in an arrogant manner and had demonstrated a lack of compassion - or interest - in much of the American population.

Swift - good to hear that you're not a white supremacist --- but, answer this question: Do you PAL AROUND with them??

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 3:09 PM

Gl, lol!! Of course you never know though; there are plenty of folks who maybe closet supremacists-a new term!

There was an anti-Republican feeling that had gripped the electorate. It was what gave the Democrats control of congress in '04.

While I'm at it, gl, I made a mistake in a previous post. I stated that Reagan was the last Republican president to make any real cuts in spending. Actually, he is better known for across the board tax cuts and implementation of "supply side economics" which didn't see results until '92. Spending actually increased during his presidency which left us with a huge deficit.

-- Posted by swift on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 3:33 PM

Arghhhhhhhh!!!! Enough already. No one is going to post anything in here if all you can read are the arguments between three people. Let some others say something every once in a while. Step back, take a deep breath, maybe go outside for awhile or go shopping. Quit watching tv or looking up boring facts on the internet. For Gods sake get a little bit of some kind of life!!

-- Posted by bwkingdingo on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 5:19 PM

Well, GL, if it wasn't about race then why did 97% of the African Americans vote for Obama? Did you view the video where the reporter went out in the streets of Chicago and interviewed African Americans. He exchanged McCain's policies for Obama's policies in his questions. They thought they were agreeing to Obama's policies and they were actually agreeing to McCain's. Also, when asked if they thought Sarah Palin would make a good vice president they said "Oh, yes, I think she will"! Explain that one to me.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 5:26 PM

Well dingo no one is stopping you from posting. Jump right in and there will be more people. How did you know there were only three people if you aren't spending time reading the post. Most of us, it appears do lots of other stuff and there are some really great opinions on here. Even if they aren't identical to mine or are totally opposite at times. I get to read it and respond to it. Do that with the TV and someone will call you a dingy dingo.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 6:30 PM

Yes, yes, BRH, we all read that on the blogs. FJGuy was quite specific in furnishing all the rest of you with that information.

I'm sure the African-American population went all out for Obama. What do you expect??

However, there was far more to it than that. I explained my take on it, and I don't intend to go OVER and OVER and OVER it - unlike some of our bloggers. (Won't mention any names...)

Those who find fault with the election will do so, no matter what. If you want to over-simplify the issue, that's certainly your prerogative.

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 6:39 PM

Oops,Dingo, sorry - I didn't see your cryptic comment! Since when does anyone's posting keep others from posting?? I don't get your logic! Besides, I've been "outside" all day, and there's nothing good on TV. This is my way to wind down in the evening. If this form of communication upsets you, call your mom on the phone tonight!

Swift..."closet supremacists"? Good one! I like it!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 6:47 PM

No, GL, I did not over simplify the issue. I read about the candidates, scrutinized their policies, watched the debates and made an educated decision. And that is exactly my point. Many voters did not vote the way they did because they did their homework. It was mostly, as stated previously, more of an Anti-Republican vote along with the race issue. No, I did not vote for Obama because of ethical issues. However, I will not criticize the man until I see his performance in office.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 7:13 PM

goat lady, you have my respect and admiration for keeping all these bloggers in line. Keep up the great work, this all gives me a headache.....

-- Posted by changedname on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 8:20 PM

Sorry, dexterite, but nobody keeps me in line! Ha!

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 9:19 PM

About the phrasing "he...should be admired or hated," yes, I got it (people need to decide how to think of him based on his decisions and actions). And I'd like to think most people will. BUT word choice and sentence construction could lead SOME folks to interpret it differently. Is "hated" the opposite of "admired?" Thanks for the responses. I was just adverse to the "hate" implication, that's all. Although, certainly there are those who DO/WILL hate him and/or his actions already without anyone prompting them to do so. I'm not a regular blogger contributor. Mostly, I like to read all the comments - very interesting. I simply thought I'd offer my humble 2 cents opinion on this one. Putting it to rest now.

-- Posted by Keating on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 10:20 PM

How dare you tell me that I stuck my foot where I shouldn't have! I have every right to say that I think your party is nothing but a bunch of morons with a huge chip on their shoulders waiting for someone to knock it off so they can say see I told you so.

Full of conspiracy theories,you see that someone( other than you of course) is doing something evil.

Would never occur to you that other people have a right to believe in things you consider wrong.

These are the same people that arm themselves and their children,say they won't pay taxes. But they still use the highways and take their welfare checks.

I grew up in Dexter so I know a lot about your kind.

So don't ever try to tell me what to do.. Is that understood?

-- Posted by Gemini on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 10:44 PM

Well, I didn't vote for him because I didn't care for the programs he was promoting or his tax ideas and in his words spreading the wealth.

He wasn't talking about increasing the employment. He was talking about taking from one class and giving to another.

I don't like his opinion on energy and since we are the Saudi Arabia of coal I especially don't care for his expressed opinion on coal. If he wants to shut down usage of coal then you better have a lot of candles to read by and millions of people whose jobs are associated with the coal industry will be out of work.

I assume that if he pursues those ideas in the form of legislation then I am going to be an unhappy person and non-supporter.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 10:51 PM

As in all political elections there are always good and bad ideas from both sides. We vote for whom we feel will be the best leader and pray that whomever wins is able to rise to the challenges he or she will face. Time will tell if our new President elect will shine as so many are certain. The only thing that is certain is for the next four years we need to be Americans regardless of the color of our skin. We need to be proud of our country and stand behind our leaders and Pray without ceasing that they will listen to that still small voice within and do the best they are capable of doing.

-- Posted by SKDellinger on Tue, Nov 11, 2008, at 11:35 PM

SKDellinger, well said, perhaps one of the best spoken opinions recently.

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 6:29 AM

There is so much good in the worst of us, and so much bad in the best of us, that it hardly behooves any of us, to talk about the rest of us.

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 8:49 AM

I don't know for sure who the author is to my previous post.

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 8:51 AM

I agree! That was an excellent summary, SK, filled with hope, realism, and guarded optimism! I may frame that one, too!

See, kingdingo, some good things come out of these discussions. Sometimes we have to wade through a bunch of junk, but it's worth it for the occasional kernels of wisdom that surface!

Pray without ceasing!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:00 AM

Another good quote, mythought! I've saved your last one (at the beginning of our conversation), and I googled the author - Og Mandino. I had never heard of him. When I hear something new like that, I'm always struck by how many relatively famous people I've never heard of. (Okay, okay..."of whom I've never heard" ...Sometimes it's such a burden to be an English teacher!!)

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:12 AM

You are right Goat Lady. When we are trying to find gold, we have to go through tons of dirt

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:19 AM

Does anyone think that Gemini needs to take a chill pill besides me? We're all certainly entitled to our opinions, but let's not personalize everything to the point of hostility.

It sounded like a "throw down" was about to begin!

-- Posted by ct on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 10:09 AM

My English could be improved GL, I have some books now that I hope will help me. I am always willing to learn.

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 10:19 AM

Oh, mythought, I hope you don't think I was commenting on your grammar! We've talked before on the blogs about the "Don't end a sentence with a preposition" rule, so every time I do it, I cringe -- but the fact is that the rule is not as hard-and-fast as some people think.

Ct, I'm not completely sure what a "throw down" is, but it sounds like a good term for a "challenge." Am I right? Like throwing down the gauntlet?

Both of the two parties involved in the above political dispute have strong opinions, but I don't think swift has a killer instinct - so I believe we'll be all right. I think he's actually pretty mild-mannered for a "closet supremacist"! (JUST KIDDING, SWIFT!!!!)

See how things on the blogs can be misinterpreted? It's impossible to convey the tone of voice in a comment, so the reader can't tell how serious you're being. You can't tell that I'm teasing swift, if you can't hear the tone!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 12:42 PM

I was not meaning that Swift was doing what I said, but the parties Swift was talking about have used that as an excuse to do what they want.

When I read that I went where I should not have gone it went through me like a flash.

The only excuse for my anger is it could be the chemo or more than likely it is menopause...lol

-- Posted by Gemini on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 1:12 PM

Goat Lady, a "throw down" is exactly that..a challenge. Good interpretation!

Gemini, that whole menopause thing is enough to make a person hostile. We all get angry, that's for sure. No offense meant by my comment.

I do enjoy these discussions even though I don't contribute too much.

Wonder what Hoon would think of this blog? Howl!! Where are you, shannon?

-- Posted by ct on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 3:50 PM

Hey Gemini, Sorry for saying you put your foot where it shouldn't be! My bad! Anyhow (red neck for anyway), the point I was trying to make is there are racists in just about every segment of society, not just the American Patriot Movement. If you check out Christian Patriot Movement, you'll see the looney fringe of the APM. You may have confused the two terms.

Gl, thanks! lol! I figured you were kidding!

Back to Gemini: I'm a redneck born in east LA County, California. I don't own a gun and don't own a truck but I like rural Missouri and the traditional strict interpretation of the Constitution. The Republican Party has left it's principles and now it's time for real conservatives to use a different political vehicle, ie. party. To me, the Constitution Party best fits that role. i really klike the Prohibition Party's platform http://www.prohibitionists.org but the party is nothing more than a name, it seems.

-- Posted by swift on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 4:24 PM

Man, is it the computer or me? I can't seeem to type writE!

-- Posted by swift on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 4:26 PM

Ct, I don't believe our former master of pick-axe-diplomacy (hoonowski) would appreciate all those terrific apologies we just read! I'm surprised that he doesn't charge in here with guns blasting, branding us all "bleeding-heart-bed-wetting-panty-waists!"

C'mon, hoon, you know you want to!!

AAaaaaaooooooooooo!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 5:54 PM

gl, I thought perhaps he was working in the new Administration as an adviser!!!

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:06 PM

If you don't like disagreement, here is one place you should not be.

Don't worry Gemini, the Republicans have listened to the bad mouthing of George Bush for eight years. It's just your turn and I am not going to hold back.

So sit back, relax, take a sedative and enjoy.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:20 PM

Haha! That suggestion ought to bring him out, if anything would! I'll bet you're right! He's seen the error of his wicked conservative ways, and now he's GONE OVER TO THE DARK SIDE!!! (Oh, my, that's a Darth Vader allusion, but it has other implications, doesn't it??)

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:22 PM

I.B., if I hadn't had to answer a phone call, I'd have gotten that last comment in before yours, as I intended!!

You're fast on the draw!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:24 PM

I.B....I liked George Bush as a man,just not as President. I really got the impression that he would have much rather been at his ranch than being in the White House.

Someone pushed that man to run and hired all of his dad's old croney's. Something just never did ring true with it. You could tell he was not happy, you could see his face light up and he would be a different person when they would show him on his ranch.

Swift...I am not for taking away peoples guns but...I would like to have more restrictions. Case in point, go to work, stores, or just look around at some of your family members...and think...they can have a gun. There are some incredibly stupid people ( I am talking common sense)That I am sure we all know. Think to yourself...would I be comfortable with this person being armed.

-- Posted by Gemini on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 9:40 PM

Gemini I would be extremely uncomfortable being unarmed. I haven't said yet that I don't like Obama. He might be a really nice person, but not if he starts increasing taxes on anyone. Do you realize how much tax you already pay. Check your utility bill. You probably pay a tax for flushing your commode.

Other than Abraham Lincoln I doubt if there has been another President who has had to deal with so much at home. I think that we were lucky to have him and if he can last a few more days without a terrorist attack he can turn it over to Obama and we will see how fast he ages and watch his smile disappear.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Nov 12, 2008, at 11:11 PM

A lot of the taxes you pay such as the Dexter tax on your water bill is local. Nothing to do with Federal. A lot is State taxes.

Here in Indiana we do not pay sales tax on food items,we do not have to pay property tax on cars, we don't have to pay Township taxes.

But... our Governor has sold Indiana to other countries. Yep, that is what I said.

The Airport in Indianapolis is now own by a company in France, A new road is sold to another country for 75 years. They are allowed to put toll booths to make money on it. Then he sold the Welfare dept. to IBM...How do you ask? Thats what a lot of people would like to know. We never voted on any of it.

Just today at a governors convention or whatever they call it he just won an award for being the best something or other. I didn't pay too much attention. Guess what?! He just got reelected!!!

-- Posted by Gemini on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:34 AM

Gemini I believe he must be a Republican, right??

-- Posted by changedname on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 6:32 AM

Gemini, There are some that would make me feel uncomfortable if I knew they were armed. I understand your concern. I don't know if we need more restrictions or just better enforcement of the laws we do have.

-- Posted by mythought on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 8:20 AM

Give everybody a gun and teach them how to use it.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 8:30 AM

Look at the statistics regarding more stringent gun control. For example, Australia. Rises in homocides, armed robbery, etc ever since the honest folks turned in their guns and the criminals didn't. I think it speaks for itself.

Alas, goat lady, I fear you are right about our old friend hoonowski. I can just see him sitting at home and singing some Dead Rocker version of "You're gonna miss me when I'm gone."

-- Posted by ct on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 11:49 AM

Dexterite...Yep!! He is a Republican...lol

I think they should have a stupid test when you buy a gun.lol

My brother and his wife both carry guns,they are so paranoid. Their son carries also and he has a hair trigger temper. I just know one of these days they are going to end up shooting some one.

-- Posted by Gemini on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 12:17 PM

I think a psychiatric evaluation should be done before anyone buys a gun and/or get their concealed carry permit. There is a saying that goes "If we knew what goes on in the minds of some of the seemingly normal people, we would run for our lives"

-- Posted by mythought on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 1:30 PM

I was going to say that but I could not spell it...lol

-- Posted by Gemini on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 3:02 PM

Well here's some more thoughts on the race connection in this election. The Wed. edition of American Republic carried and article about the presidential election in Arkansas. Arkansas is the only formerly Confederate state to have not elected blacks to statewide office. McCain won 20% more votes than Obama did inspite of the fact that Democrats were elected to every state office. That tells me that a lot of white Democrats voted for McCain only because Obama is black. The article staed that the Arkansas Republican party has done better fielding black candidates for state offices in Arkansas than the Democratic Party has.

Speaking of race, I have a book entitled, "One Blood- The Biblical Answer to Racism" by Ken Ham, Carl Wieland and Don Batten. It is published by Master Books, Inc. and sold by Institute for Creation Research http://www.icr.org. The book brings out the fact that there is only one race, the human race and the belief that the modern concept of race is really an evolutionary Darwinist concept.Chapter headings include; Cains Wife, Genetics and the Human Family, "Interracial Marriage?", Psuedo-Biblical Arguments Refuted, etc. You can go to the website and click resources on the left hand side.

I have dealt wwith racist ideas since I went to Bible college in '77. While there, in the college library, I noticed a Spotlight magazine published by Liberty Lobby. The periodical include anti-Semitic articles and ads for such groups as David Duke's NAAWP. When I pointed these things out to the librarian, she was unaware of those articles and ads. She pulled it off the shelf and discontinued the subscription.

At our church's '91 General Conference, I introduced a memorial signed by the required amount of signatures. It ended up in the Education Committee and numbered 55 on the list. It more or less said that our Bible College and children's home would not discriminate on the basis of race, color, or national origin. Several preachers argued that his was a liberal memorial which would lead to adding homosexuals. The required signatures wwere questioned and found to be appropriate. The memorial was sent to the floor of the conference. It was tabled. A motion was made to take it off the table for an up or down vote, and the motion failed.Discussions about the memorial were ridiculous. One said that it would introduce "interracial marriage".

In '93, I was called a n---er lover by a preacher for opposing racial slurs and jokes.

I'vew butted heads time and again with preachers who've told me they're against "interracial marriage". One who is part French and Native American told me he was against "our boys marrying Mexican women" and vice versa. When I explained that Mexicans are really a mixture of Indian and Spanish, he replied, that's different". You can't argue with these southerners who were raised to segregationists. I'm proud of our daughter in-law who is 50% Mexican, part white, and a small mix of Native American and even a little tiny bit black from one of her great grand parents. I'm proud of our son for marrying such a wonderful lady and that now they're expecting twins!

-- Posted by swift on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 3:44 PM

By the way, our Bible college is now interracial! Took awhile, but it is!

-- Posted by swift on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 3:47 PM

Thanks for sharing swift, that took a lot of courage and I respect your post.

-- Posted by changedname on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 6:20 PM

Well I guess if you need a psychiatric evaluation before you can buy a gun then you could also need one before you can get a drivers license, before you can get married or for sure have children. Guess we just shouldn't start down that road.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 9:48 PM

Gemini I think taxes are taxes no matter what level of government imposes them. Over half of my income goes to the government and that just isn't right. Enough is enough.

As for selling property or your airport or roads to another country that shouldn't worry you. They can't take it home with them. I guess some money will go back to their country from the profits but in a global economy how can you be sure who really owns the company. It may me in another country and be a subsidiary of a U.S. based firm. A lot of U.S. companies do have holdings in other countries. I assume that is OK.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Nov 13, 2008, at 11:37 PM

Just stating an opinion I.B. I am not anti gun, in fact I own guns myself. My parents trained me in handling them and when I worked as security I was trained and tested on the firing range by trainers in the St Louis Co Police Department but no evaluation to see if I was mentally able to handle the responsibility. However it was driven into my head what would happen if I did abuse this responsibility by both police trainers and my parents

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 6:03 AM

I am a teacher, I will not accept social security, I did not need the stim package. I do know what marxism and socialism mean, since I do possess a masters degree in social sciences. I am not in the mood to write a thesis on a blog. Obama is a liberal socialist in the same ranks as FDR, Truman, and in some respects Johnson. I certainly do not believe McCain is the best for the job, simply better than the alternative. Thank you for your input Gemini.

-- Posted by mobrigade on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 8:36 AM

A psych check before purchasing a firearm is not realistic. I suppose the government will pay for that evaluation too!

-- Posted by mobrigade on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 8:37 AM

Did you know that the the SS administration wants to require teachers to pay in to social security?

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 9:03 AM

I guess I don't really understand. Why shouldn't teachers pay into social security? Everyone esle does don't they, or are there more professions that don't have to pay?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 9:45 AM

A lot of teachers receive retirement from the teachers fund and then get a job in the public sector, work so many years and then draw Soc Sec checks,,,I can see why S C Admin would want them to contribute earlier. Same as military receiving retirement benefits from military and then work public sector to receive soc sec payments.

-- Posted by changedname on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 10:18 AM

They still contribute to there own retirement fund. I believe the the contibution is larger than what they would pay towards social security

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 10:35 AM

Contribution

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 10:36 AM

Well, IB, teachers shouldn't pay into Social Security because they can't draw Social Security from their job as teachers. They pay in to the Teacher Retirement System at a current rate of 13.5%. There is a big push by the SSA right now for some in the education field to pay BOTH retirement and social security. This does not apply to teachers but other professionals such as counselors, speech teachers, psychological examiners, etc. SSA wants 9% paid in for the retirement fund and 6.2% for social security. I have major issues with this because of a number of factors. For years now educators in those professions have been paying teacher retirement only. If the rules are changed in the middle of the game how will that affect those who now have to pay both? The teacher retirement benefits will be cut to 66% and then they will be eligible for social security benefits. Teacher retirement benefits attract many to the field to begin with. Right now there is something called an "area of critical shortage" in education. Counselors, speech teachers, psychological examiners are all on that list. And now they want to cut their benefits. I believe this is merely a loop hole being used by the SSA to get more money for a failing system. Let's look at a fictitous scenerio. A speech teacher starts her career at age 25. With the current system he/she would be able to retire at age 55 with 30 years of service. However, if that person is paying both teacher retirement and social security and they DO decide to retire at 55 they would only be able to draw 66% of the teacher retirement and would not be able to draw on the social security until age 65. Then there is the issue of disability. If they become diabled who pays their disability and how much? Will teacher retirement pay 66% and social security pay 33%? Teacher retirement and social security are two totally separate entities and should stay that way for all who choose to be in the education field.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 10:42 AM

What percentage of their pay does a teacher get when they retire?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 12:33 PM

Thanks bootheelRedHead. I had just gotten that info together, I'm glad I don't have to type it now, I am a very slow typist.

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 12:34 PM

The military does pay in to social security but there is nothing held out of their check for retirement and it is held out of their retirement check too. Of course I don't know how to compare the pay for the two.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 12:36 PM

IB, I am not certain on these figures but I believe teacher retirement is approximately 80% of the average of the highest 3 (or 5) years of their salary. Teacher retirement is a good retirement plan. Like I stated earlier, this can be a factor contributing to whether or not some of the people in the jobs in question decide to work in the public school system or the private sector. I do know that counselors, speech therapists and psychological examiners have many options other than the school system in regards to employment. Take a speech teacher, for instance. He/She must have a Masters degree in speech pathology to teach speech in Missouri public schools. Someone with a degree in speech pathology could choose to work at a nursing care center, hospital, etc. and make 1 1/2 to 2 times as much money as they make in the public school system. Same for psychological examiners. They are able to administer testing in a hospital setting, prison, state facility, etc. Counselors, who also have masters degrees, can work in community counseling, in various state positions, etc. My point in all this is: areas of critical shortage, benefits being cut, they can go somewhere else and make more money. Makes no sense to me that the government would penalize them when schools have a hard time finding them in the first place. I have been told that they would have the option of still paying in the 13.5% to teacher retirement AND the 6.2% to social security but who could afford to have almost 20% of their paycheck taken out each month. Yes, the military does pay in to social security. They do not pay any retirement. However, they should not have to pay into any retirement system. We OWE them that much!

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 2:05 PM

Sorry, IB, were you saying that social security is held out of a military retirement check? I missed that statement the first time I read your post. And, could someone tell me what percentage is held out for someone who does have to pay into social security? Teachers do have money held out for Medicare benefits.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 2:11 PM

If you work for someone you pay 7.3%,your employer pays 7.3%.

If you work for yourself you have to pay the whole 14.6%.

-- Posted by Gemini on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 2:50 PM

I will have to look at my statement for my military retirement. They do hold taxes out and I am pretty sure that Social Security is included in it. The State of Missouri had a bill up for review this year to stop holding state taxes out of the military retirement but I guess it never made it out of committee.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 3:24 PM

IB, I personally don't believe they SHOULD hold social security taxes out of military retirement. You have paid society over and above and they should be taking care of YOU! I am a strong believer of taking care of our military. Thank you for serving our country. Thanks for the info Gem. Like I said before, teachers pay in 13.5% and the school has to match that. So, that's 27% total. If the new social security loophole sticks some school employees will pay 15.2% and the school will have to match that, also. If they choose to pay the total retirement percentage plus social it would bring the total to 19.7%. After the school match it would be 39.4% which I believe is totally ridiculous. I am sure you can all add! Ha! I just get kind of fired up about it, as you can probably tell.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 4:08 PM

Wow, a lot's been going on here since I last tuned in! You guys are giving some excellent information! Bootheel, you gave a good summary of the dilemma that teachers are in.

Another aspect of that situation is that - in Missouri - if a teacher's spouse dies, he/she will be able to collect only about 25% of his/her social security at the age of 65. I think only three states passed this law. It has to do with "double-dipping," but some educators think the Missouri legislature is punishing teachers for not letting the state take over the administration of their retirement fund several years ago. I think the law was passed around 1981.

Teacher retirement benefits also depend on how many years a teacher has in the retirement system.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 7:41 PM

GL, I was hoping you would respond because I think you have said you were an English teacher. The social security off-set is what I am also concerned about. If educators who might be affected by this latest fiasco retire with teacher retirement and social security, will there not be an off-set in what they can draw? I believe this will create many delimnas the legislatures haven't even begun to think about. I do know that Senator Bond has sent a letter to the Social Security Administrator asking to meet with him regarding this issue. Senator Bond is in total disagreement. I am hoping the same goes for Senator McCaskill and Representative Emerson. I have put letters in the mail to all three. We need to join together and fill up their email and post office boxes in opposition to this situation.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 8:43 PM

I agree, bootheel. I was at a school board meeting last night in which the superintendent went over this issue with his board. I can't imagine how some of these absolutely stupid ideas get started!

We get a LOT of teachers on these blogs. Maybe we can stir some things up! If all of them sent letters, it could make a difference!

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 9:17 PM

Yes, I am telling (griping to) anyone who will listen! Ha! If teachers will go to the MSTA web site there is a form letter they can fill in with the appropriate names and addresses of the Senators and Representatives. This is the letter I used which sums up the opposition very well. Right now they are trying to get the effective date changed to July 1, 2010 so maybe they can take the necessary steps to get this changed by then. I have considered emailing Mike Smythe and having him discuss it on Viewpoint. We all know he is a former educator.........I still believe it is simply the SSA's way of finding money.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 9:30 PM

Oh, yes, I think that's pretty obvious, bootheel! And it's very sneaky, because even most educators are completely unaware of these laws. I just googled the topic and discovered the names of the laws: Social Security Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP), and the Government Pension Offset (GPO). I found this information on the MNEA site, but I'll check the MSTA site next.

I've often wondered what it would be like to teach in a state where they didn't have these restrictions. The first one (WEP) especially punishes teachers who work at jobs in the public sector during the summer.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 9:39 PM

Bootheel, I haven't found that form letter on the MSTA site, yet, and I'm too sleepy to stay up later. I'll have to look again tomorrow.

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 9:55 PM

Ok. I look forward to discussing this further. If you go to MSTA.org, click on "Changes to PSRS/Social Security for school district staff" on the right of the page. Then scroll down in the article to "download a sample letter". I will have to research WEP and GPO. Talk tomorrow.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Fri, Nov 14, 2008, at 10:03 PM

Bootheel, I've downloaded the letter. I'll send it off to both Kit Bond and Claire McCaskill Monday. Thanks for calling this to our attention!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 9:25 AM

Thanks, GL. Educators need all the help they can get, as you well know. Please pass this information on to other interested parties. I appreciate anyone who will send letters to Bond, McCaskill and Emerson. I miss hoon, too. He always had some interesting comments.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 10:51 AM

Hoon also seemed to know a lot about the education arena.

I tell ya, I've read over the "Social Security Treatment of Missouri Public School Employees for Districts that executed Agreements after 8/12/84," (which is from the governor's office) and you'd have to be a NEW YORK LAWYER to figure out all this gobblydegook!

There are so many ways for a gov't agency to take advantage of us common folk!!

I wonder if Jay Nixon could help on this??

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Nov 15, 2008, at 12:52 PM

In reading the Southeast Missourian today, Soc Sec deductions doesnt apply teachers, principals or superintendents. Only bus drivers, part time teachers, counselors, etc.

-- Posted by changedname on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 1:58 PM

It also can apply to extra-duty pay for coaches and other personnel who receive stipends for extra duty. According to the MNEA site (www.mnea.org), it may affect 1563 office administration employees, 1948 instructional aides, all nurses that are not RN's, 280 transportation employees, 10 food service emplooyees, 52 maintenance employees, and 6280 "other" specialized positions.

These people will be required to pay only two-thirds of the normal retirement contribution, while contributing fully to social security for the remainder of their career. So, in other words, when retirement comes, they will receive only two-thirds the school retirement benefits, while they may well get NOTHING for what they put into social security.

It's a CATCH 22 situation, you see? They're required to pay to both, but they can't receive full benefit from one, because they're also paying into the other!! Catch 22!

AND (and this is a big "and") -- I feel that it's an attempt to weaken, if not destroy, the Public School Retirement System.

AND I was right in thinking that our new governor may help us on this! According to MNEA, he's participating in a campaign to try to do something.

But - oh, boy, the IRS is involved, too, so what are the chances??? NOT GOOD!!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 2:46 PM

Please remember gl, our new governor can only do sometimes as much as the republican led congress allows. He can be a leader but needs much cooperation from the legislature.

-- Posted by changedname on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 7:29 PM

Oh, phooey!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 9:30 PM

Now dexterite why would you say something like that. You would have screamed bloody murder if I had said it about Bush and the Democratic Congress.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Nov 16, 2008, at 11:14 PM

"Bloody murder..." I love that phrase! It's so 1940's!

Dinah Shore sang "He says 'Murder," he says..." I need to put that old 78 on CD. I'd love to listen to it again. Ahhh...music from that era would be so soooooothing in this day and age! I must get one of those turntables that plays records and records them to CD's. That is, if my 78's aren't broken, just sitting on the shelf!

"He says 'Murder" he says, every time we kiss..He says 'Murder' he says, at a time like this. And that "Murder' he says, in that impossible tone...Will bring on nobody's murder but his own.." Ahhhhhhhhhhh....

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 4:28 AM

I will do what I can to help with this situation with teachers retirement with letter writing etc. Although I am not a teacher, I have a a child in the first grade and I don't want to see these great teachers have to leave us because they have little waiting for them at the end of thier careers. My little girl has learned so much from the fine teacher she has and I want her to continue having the very best, and the very best teachers deserve the very best.

-- Posted by mythought on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 8:25 AM

Ok thought, I agree that teachers are great, some of them and they deserve whatever they can get. You are probably not going to find too much sympathy for your cause though. Why should they be any different than the rest of us who are out here working every day? Do you think that I am something less?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 8:43 AM

OK, IB. So, you think it is fine for you to receive full benefits from social security and some in the education profession will receive full benefits from NEITHER teacher retirement nor social security?? I see no justice in that. And, how would you feel if you worked for years, paid into social security and in the middle of your career you were told "Oh, wait. You will only be able to draw 66% of what you were supposed to draw when you retire?" No, you are nothing less. However, we CHOSE to be in the field of education and part of it is because of the retirement package. Not fair they are trying to change the rules in the middle of the game. If they want to start NOW with the people going into the education field (with them knowing UPFRONT what their retirement will look like) then that might be a different story.......

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 9:01 AM

I.B. What bootheelredhead said.

-- Posted by mythought on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 9:30 AM

I thibnk that is what I was intending to say. I see no reason why they couldn't start that with the new employees if they feel they must change it. I don't believe they should mess with the people that are already in a specific plan, but I can't think of a good reason that teachers should be on any different retirement system than anyone else. I am not saying that social security is all they should get. Maybe they should look at them being put on the same system as a regular state employee.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 10:08 AM

I.B., are you sure that our children's social security is even going to be there when they retire? Isn't the whole point that the system is going broke? Why would you resent that some group - any group - would want to use a different system? The teacher retirement funds are SECURE, because they've been carefully watched over by a very dedicated, trustworthy and relatively unselfish board of directors, composed of elected former teachers and administrators.

It's too bad that Social Security hasn't been as carefully tended!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 4:58 PM

AMEN, GL! Teachers should have a different retirement system, IB, just like the other state employees. They are regulated by the STATE Department of Education the same as all the other state agencies. And, some of the state retirement funds are interchangeable. I had a friend who worked for the state, then for the public school system. Her state retirement funds were rolled over to her teacher retirement funds. So, they are similar. The good reason teachers should be on a different retirement system is to draw quality teachers to education. Senator Bond stated this in a letter to the Administrator of the SSA. There is a teacher shortage as it is. If the benefits aren't as good as in the past do you think the shortage will become less. Especially in those areas of critical shortage I mentioned earlier.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Mon, Nov 17, 2008, at 6:21 PM

Why should they have a different retirement system than the other state employees? You are implying that other state employees are less quality and that is just not the case.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 11:30 AM

No, IB, I was not implying any such thing. What I meant was that teachers should be on a different retirement system other than social security. I think you misinterpreted what I wrote.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 11:43 AM

And, actually what I said was they should be on a different retirement system JUST LIKE other state employees. That is to say not social security

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 11:45 AM

Good news! I received an email today regarding this social security issue. The SSA has determined the following: (copied from the body of the email)

"Q: Are Counselor positions exempt from Social Security withholding?

A: SSA has determined that the Counselor position is exempt from Social Security. This determination was made based on documentation from 1948 that supports the requirement for a Counselor to hold a teaching certificate. At this time, other similar positions including, but not limited to, School Psychological Examiners, School Psychologists, Adult Education Supervisors,Career Education Counselors, Career Education Placement Coordinators, and Speech-Language Pathologists are still under review and are not considered exempt at this point. Please check back on this web page for continual updates. (11-18-08)"

There is still lobbying to be done in order to get the other positions exempt as well.

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 2:07 PM

Good news on the counselors - Why on earth would they think that a counselor did not have to have a teaching degree??? (Duh!)

The speech pathologists that I have known have had teaching certificates, too. Man, this is getting nit picky!

I.B., you're still missing the point! The fact is that the original decision was made in..what? 1952?? for teachers to create their own retirement system. Ask yourself WHY the SSA CARES? I'll answer that question - It appears to me (rabble rouser that I am) that the SSA wants MONEY! They know that PSRS people will have to pay IN and not get any money OUT! Wow! A windfall for the SSA!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 5:04 PM

Hey, Corey!! We broke 155 postings!! Hahaha! I think that ties Bobby's "My Wife Does Love Me" blog, which was carried by the now-REALLY-dead dead rockers!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 5:13 PM

GL, you just keep on rabble rousing!!!!!

-- Posted by BootheelRedHead on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 6:53 PM

I don't mind that teachers have their own retirement system. I am concerned that they are not part of the social security system. No one should be able to opt out of the system. This is a system that takes care of everyone and it is not actually a retirement system.

What would happen if other professions were allowed to opt out?

If we are going to have it, everyone should pay in and receive out.

Hey, what happened to the touchy subjet discussion? Maybe Obama will side with me on this. It's seems to be a socialism program.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 8:13 PM

I've even forgotten what the "touchy subject" was! Something about Obama. Oh, wasn't it about the idea of whether the American people can handle having a black man as president?

And, I.B., why is social security a good system if it's going to run out of money? It's my understanding that some of the money might have been diverted into other projects by Congress. Is that true?

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Nov 18, 2008, at 9:24 PM

OK GL, as for the topic. What we can expect is an increase of racism against Caucasian men and women by an escalation of special treatment for minorities, a.k.a., affirmative action.

As for SS, it is the biggest Ponzi scheme in history. Unlike a pension fund that invests its funds to ensure payment of benefits, SS is a pay-as-you-go system that if the economy continues to tank could begin paying out more money than it takes in as soon as the next year or so. Another lurking "crisis" for the next administration to deal with.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Wed, Nov 19, 2008, at 12:25 AM

Okay, FJGuy, I don't believe that was the original topic, unless the blog is entitled "The World as Viewed by FJGuy." Still, I concede that the blogs are lacking a certain "something" when you and our dear departed Hoonowski are absent.

I don't believe you've shared your specific opinions on Social Security before, have you? Of course, given your previous comments about FDR, I think I know your feelings on this dubious boon to society...

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Nov 19, 2008, at 6:17 AM

If the teachers or anybody else contribute to Social Security, should't they recieve the full benifits even if they contribute to another retirement fund ?

Also on subject, I didn't vote for Obama, but I can handle him being President.

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Nov 19, 2008, at 8:44 AM

Say what you wish about Soc Sec, but you would see major hunger in the USA today without Soc Sec. I do agree if you pay into it you should receive full benefits due you. We should hold Congress responsible if there is any stealing from the fund, but when has Congress been honest?? Both parties are irresponsible when it comes to doing what is right and correct.

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Nov 19, 2008, at 9:12 AM

Public opinion seems to be going toward Third Party!

-- Posted by swift on Wed, Nov 19, 2008, at 3:27 PM

Swift, some people may think you are a wing-nut with all your third party talk, but in June 1992 Ross Perot led the polls with 39% (GW Bush had 31% and Clinton had 25%). If he hadn't been tricked into temporarily dropping out he may very well have won, and the US would be in a very different situation. Among other things NAFTA wouldn't have been enacted. It is hard to even imagine now, but prior to NAFTA Canadians comprised the largest group of undocumented non-citizens.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Wed, Nov 19, 2008, at 7:33 PM

FJ, did you check out that www.marketwatch.com site that swift put on the main Statesman question? If I remember right, I was shocked to see Barrons' comments about NAFTA. Go to that site and see what you think of it. Some of the info went counter to what I would have thought the conventional wisdom would be.

Of course, I barely made it through economics in college. It's absolutely GREEK to me!

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Nov 20, 2008, at 11:17 AM

I just want everybody to know that I have enjoyed reading this and other blogs. I like to hear the opinions of others whether I agree with them or not. The world would really be boring if we all thought alike. I hope to be a part of this for a long time to come.

-- Posted by mythought on Fri, Nov 21, 2008, at 8:02 AM

What a nice thing to say, mythought! We don't often hear positive comments like that. Quite the opposite, in fact! Obviously, I love the blogs, too, and they furnish some excellent information. I'm amazed at the knowledge that our bloggers have! I feel that this forum has helped me keep up with so many topics!

-- Posted by goat lady on Fri, Nov 21, 2008, at 9:41 PM

This may be a record, Corey - this is post 169! I think that gives you significant bragging rights over Bobby. Even if we go back to the early days of the Statesman site (last year), I'm pretty sure that your only competition is one of your own blogs back when Jabelson and I.B. and those guys were arguing politics.

Boy, I'll bet Jabelson is happy with this last election!

Anyway, thanks for leaving this one up until it played out!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Nov 24, 2008, at 1:16 PM

Okay, Corey, it's a safe bet that this blog is finished! Give us some new material, I beg you!!!! We're dying here!!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Dec 1, 2008, at 8:48 PM

I agree Goat Lady. We need something new to discuss. Maybe we can talk about the recession and ways to get through it and how we can keep an upbeat attitude about it.

-- Posted by mythought on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 7:13 AM

Yay!!! I finally have someone to talk to!!! That's great!

Well, I've been trying to decide whether this recession is going to be as bad as the Great Depression. It's a little hard on me, since I'm too young to remember that one. However, my parents and grandparents talked about it enough that I FEEL as if I lived through it.

I went out shopping on Black Friday, and it DID NOT look as if we were in a recession! Maybe we're suffering, compared to former standards, but we still aren't suffering as much as our parents did.

Yesterday, I talked to a friend who said he had already lost $100,000 out of his 401K. Now, THAT'S scarey...

Of course, some of us can't lose what we don't HAVE!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Dec 2, 2008, at 3:40 PM

I never lived during the great depression, but the way I grew up wasn't as near as comfortable as we have it today.

I am upbeat every morning when I wake up and don't have to go outside and get coal to put in the stove. When I can use the bathroom in the house and I have real toilet paper and I don't have to go to the little house out back to the bathroom. When everywhere you look there are two cars in the driveway and the major roads are paved. You can get ice from a dispenser in the refrigerator door along with the filtered cold water if you want it. There is a colored TV in every room with a remote and the TV receives more than three channels and you don't have to have someone run outside two or three times during a show to move the antennae back in to place. I don't have to help butcher hogs and eat salt cured pork. I don't have to feed the chickens before I go to work or millk the cow. I can take a hot bath or shower every day. I have more than one pair of shoes and there are no patches on my jeans unless I want them that way of course. There will be more than one present under the Christmas tree for my kids and grand children.

Sure I have lost a little money in the stock market, but at least I had it to lose, my parents never. If you were as poor as I was growing up, this is nothing. I am still 100 times better off and so are my children. What recession?

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 12:19 AM

I.B., what a GREAT post! That is possibly the best one you've ever put up here on the blogs!

You are so right to remind us of the good things we have, despite the talk of recession.

I've thought of another difference - How can obesity be a major health problem in the U.S. today, if we're suffering hard times like the Great Depression? We've all seen the black & white photos from the 30's. Some of those Americans were on the edge of starvation! THAT'S a depression! Read Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath"! THAT'S a depression!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 7:49 AM

I love the "Grapes of Wrath" and I love reminding my high brow friends from California that I know where their parents are from.

It is true though GL, we live in a very nice time and people are still begging to come to the U.S., and some even come illegally. The door is open and people are running in, not out.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 8:23 AM

I am with I.B. I am thankful for all those blessings and more. If the only thing I had was a home to live in and food on the table I would still feel blessed. What I have would not seem like much to some and to others it would be a lot.

Also I am thankful for this computer that allows me to be in contact with fine people on the blogs.

-- Posted by mythought on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 8:28 AM

Amen!

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Dec 3, 2008, at 5:23 PM

To be honest, folks that live in the low income housing have a better quality of life than folks who lived during the Great Depression, and definitely better than some folks in other countries. Yes, things are rough and it is a shame that so many folks are losing jobs but as long as we all have a roof over our head, food in our belly and we and our family are healthy, then we are truly blessed. At least that is how I feel about things, I am sure not everyone will agree with my view point.

-- Posted by mizzou_mom on Fri, Dec 12, 2008, at 2:37 PM

I agree, kind of. When you talk to the lord, you should thank him for what you have while you are asking him to help you win the lottery.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Dec 12, 2008, at 7:31 PM

I think the lottery is a foolish illusion. It reminds me of the Gladiatorial games in Roman times, designed to distract the people and keep them happy. Of course, the lottery is considerably more humane, I guess, so I suppose it does no harm -- unless the poor spend money that they can't spare. I feel the same way about gambling.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Jan 10, 2009, at 3:23 PM


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Corey Noles, staff writer for The Daily Statesman and Editor of The North Stoddard Countian, is the author of a regular baseball/St. Louis Cardinals column and also uses his blog to sound off on various happenings in sports. He also operates a weekly baseball mailbag column.

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