St. Louis Cardinals Trade Rumor Central

Shaun Marcum might be a good fit in St. Louis. He is currently 1-10 with a 5.29 ERA. But he's from Kansas City and played at Missouri State. He has a career 3.88 ERA and a 58-46 record.

He wouldn't be very expensive and the Mets might be willing to move players.

This is the type of player I look for St. Louis to go after. I don't expect any big trades.

But Jake Peavy may be available for someone.

Interesting idea. Would the Cardinals trade Jason Motte?

Shaun Marcum??? Maybe the Mets will throw in Bobby Bonilla and his 1.2 million per year for the next 20 years as well.

Yeah, and we could give them back probably just Rob Kaminsky in exchange. We are trying to win now! And nothing says winning now like making a marginal downgrade in our starting pitching while taking on extra salary!

personally I like marcum as an insurance policy.. he got off to a rough start but has been better in more recent starts

Marcum is the epidemity of worthlessness at this point. I would take him for Wiggy straight up only to dump Marcum on Waivers and call up Ryan Jackson for some bench help.

YOU CANT TRADE A DISABLED PLAYER (MOTTE). I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MO GO AFTER AN IMPACT BAT AND REPLACE JAY IN CENTER. AN EXPERIENCED ARM FOR THE BULLPEN WOULD BE NICE AS WELL.

WHY ARE YOU YELLING? But seriously if Mo could flip something into a nice SS who can hit it would be nice. I agree that Jay could use replacing but the price for rental players is too high and long term solutions only complicate OT's eventually ascension next year( or later this year).

Ty Wigginton has been given his unconditional release and AAA catcher Rob Johnson has been called up. Thank goodness our long national nightmare is finally over.

I got that from the St Louis Cardinals official Twitter account by the way.

Ding Dong the Wicked Wig is dead!

Wiggy is OUTTA HERE!!!!

That was a waste of 5mill. I wish I had 5mill for doing nothing.

The Cardinals seem to do a pretty good job spending their money on players that don't play on the team very much this year.

Wiggington

Carpenter

Furcal

Motte

Garcia

DW injuries every team! How about you do some research. UGH!!! I swear I feel like baby seal clubbing after reading your posts.

In the off season I would see if they would trade maybe Jon jay, and a good up-and-comer to try and acquire Giancarlo Stanton. Because I highly doubt he will want to stay in Miami and he would be another good power bat in the line-up

Why wait until then Tigers2638?

Because Giancarlo Stanton is a big fish and it will take a lot to bait him

How about Asdrubal Cabrera at SS for Kelly and Lyons/Gast?

If Lyons/ Gast or both of those guys would get the deal done I would do it in a heartbeat. Problem is Cleveland loves Rosenthal and Martinez and wants one of them. That's what I heard at least.

Then trade them Rosenthal and trade somebody else to another team for a veteran setup man.

The real question is will legendary GM Walt Jocketty pull off a big trade with the Seattle Mariners before the deadline.

Would anyone trade Lance Lynn for Jake Peavy considering Lynn's second half of the season performance history?

Would anyone trade Wacha for Peavy?

DW you are the smelly-est of trolls

I think the real question is do the Phillies sell at this deadline? If they do sell they two or three really interesting pieces that any team especially our team would want including Jimmy Rollins and Cliff Lee. I think we could low ball them and take some money off there hands so they either miss or get closer to missing the tax and we could probably get one or both of those guys and we could really use them both

Would anyone trade Adam Wainwright for Joe Blanton?

Hahaha thank Doback I needed that one.

I'll pass on Jimmy. But I would be more than happy to take Cliff Lee off their hands for relatively no one lol. Does anyone else realize we have 6 rookies on our pitching staff? Don't get me wrong, those young guns have been outstanding. But I am worried about the workload being placed on them.

I think the wall is a little exaggerated of an effect but I see your issue with it. By the way half a year if Rollins is still more valuable than Kozma

But we don't need offense. We need pitching. On June 1, the Cardinals had a starting-pitching ERA of 2.49. Now we all knew that wasn't going to last, but I don't think any of us thought the drop would be so steep, and it has been a large drop the 5-or-so weeks. Since June 2, the rotation has a 4.65 ERA. Wainwright has been the only starter during that time who has looked good with his 5 quality starts and 2.65 ERA. In 30 outings the others starters have a 5.29 ERA and 9 quality starts. We need pitching.

I don't know if we need it or not. These things are cyclical and we have help in a rested Martinez/Wacha and zombie Carpenter( rehab start in AA) coming to save the back of the rotation. Question is whether or not the rest over the break helps straighten out Miller and Lynn which I think it will

I don't think the Pittsburgh Pirates will win the division unless they make major moves at the trading deadline.

The team with the 2nd best record in baseball will have to make MAJOR moves at the trade deadline to make the playoffs.

I don't think they will win the division without major moves Doback. They might get in as a wild card.

Well their offense and the back of their rotation is pretty shaky

I still think the Reds will win the division.

Who do you think will win the division DaleDoback?

DW you are insanely clinging to that prediction which is now way more far fetched than it was at the beginning of the year

They "might"?? Really? Really? Wow DW you always amaze me with your analysis.

I don't think it's far fetched at all Bunk.

I also still like the Dodgers in the West.

The Cardinals will win the division barring any significant injury and Carp comes back. Once they get in, they will be the most dangerous team in the playoffs. Not trying to put the cart before the horse but you're looking at possibly a playoff rotation of Waino, Carp, Lynn, and Miller. A bullpen with Siegrest, Rosenthal, Martinez, and Chief. That's a downright nasty bullpen when they are on. We all know baseball playoffs are all about who gets hot at the right time but all the pieces are there. There isn't a team in baseball the Cards can't beat in a 7 game series.

Cubs 2008 team? I don't think the cards could hang. Bell City Cubs that is.

Hahaha They beat Chaffee that year. They had some stud hit a sac fly to win it in the 7th.

we'll never know the true talent of that stud bc he only played 1 year of high school baseball.. to busy out chasing all the areas women.

I have heard Cards have looked at Matt Lindstrom and Alexi Ramirez of the White Sox as well.

At this point Jake Peavy would be the trade I would make if I was in charge of the Cards following recent developments. If you are not going to trade for a pitcher that would be among the top four in your rotation it makes more sense to trade for a SS. There is not much value in a No. 5 starter for two months for St. Louis when you examine the current N.L. standings.

How much value is there in finishing as a division winner instead of a wild card winner?

I look for the Reds to make more significant trades under Jocketty at the deadline that may push them ahead of the Cards.

I'll add Walt Jocketty has been named GM of the Year three times.

Bahahahahahaha

DW Stop the trolling. Just stop, we all know about your Jockety being your man crush.

With the recent developments regarding Chris Carpenter and another set back, its time this team stop just flirting with him. While the courtship has brought us 2 world championships, the relationship is over and I am just now flat out done in hoping he will come back.

he never should have tried to return as a starter.

I hope this news of C-Mart for Alexi Ramirez isn't true. Hope they were giving us more.

That would be an awful awful trade

Why are we so hard up for a SS when its obvious that pitching is what we need? I just dont understand this. Martinez for Ramirez would be terrible.

We need a SS just as much as a 4th starter

when joe Kelly gets to throw at least 5 innings this year..

27.1 ip

20 hits allowed

2.30 era

don't see why he's not entrenched as our 5th starter

He is but you don't want to carry Westbrook and Kelly into a tight playoff series necessarily so this is the best time to figure out what you get to go along with Waino, Lynn, Miller

I am very worried about Lynn and Miller. Miller was great last night, but I am worried about the work load he will face, especially come playoff time. And Lynn has been downright atrocious the last 6 plus weeks. And I don't understand the hard on everyone has for wanting a different SS. Kozma is not terrible. Not great, but not terrible.

They haven't officially announced he still start Saturday and that is just stupid.. If we go get a starter trade Lynn if you can get a vast improvement or don't go get anyone. Westbrook moving to our 5th starter spot is terrible considering the money he makes.

Why trade Lynn? Just move him into the bullpen, which has 5 rookie pitchers currently.

Let's all panic!!!!!!

What about Jake Peavy? Wacha for Peavy and sign Peavy to an extension with the money that won't be spent on Beltran next season.

Only sign Peavy to an extension or trade for him if he his healthy.

Wacha for Peavy would be ignorant

I'm saying if your going to try to get someone to be our number 2.. trade Lynn not Martinez or Wacha.

Martinez is worth way more than Wacha

Cliff Lee is a better choice than Peavy but I don't think the Phillies will trade him.

I know that.

2013- Waino, Peavy, Miller, Lynn, Westbrook

2014- Waino Peavy, Miller, Lynn, Garcia

Or

2013 Waino, Lynn, Miller, Westbrook, Kelly

2014 Waino, Miller, Lynn, and 2 of Martinez, Wacha, Garcia

I like 2014 in scenario 2 much more.

I'd just ride this out with Kelly and Kozma. We do have the best record in baseball here fellers.

Trust in Mo.

You need another veteran starter to win in the playoffs Doback. I think a lefty would be better than a righty.

Is it not worth giving up a pitching prospect to have a chance to win a World Series?

The percentage chance of winning a World Series goes up very little even if you add the best player available on the market. The Cardinals have as a chance of winning the World Series as anyone in baseball right now. A "veteran starter" (code phrase for mediocre pitcher) would add just about zero extra World Series potential value in exchange for extra cost. Just throwing the phrase veteran starter around means nothing as that is not a tangible thing. The Cardinals aren't offering a pitching prospect for a veteran starter. They are offering a specific player or players for specific player or players from another team.

Since when do only veteran pitchers pitch well in the postseason? If you can pitch, you can pitch. If ya can't, ya can't. You think Westbrook is gunna throw complete game shutouts in the playoffs because he's a veteran and Shelby is gunna get shelled because he's young? Wow.

here's a list of guys I'd like us to go get that shouldn't take much..

Marlon Byrd- gives us another bat so we don't have 3 automatic outs at 7,8,9

Brendan Ryan- if you're shortstop is gonna hit .230 he may as well hit .200 and be a top 3 defensive Shortstop

Erik Bedard- Has great stuff, always has. Battles Injuries, ego, and walks. Maybe in a highly competitive situation he could thrive to finish out this 1 year deal.

Nerd has loved him some Marlon Byrd for a while lol

haha.. I also would love Justin Ruggiano from the Marlins.. look at his number with the marlins last year when he got to play everyday.. Kozma's awfulness would soon be forgotten if we plug Ruggiano/Byrd in at 7 and get .265-.280 with 8 homers down the stretch

how much more is Martinez worth than Wacha? Wacha is a top 5 prospect.

The only pitcher I'd trade Wacha or Martinez for would be Bud Smith.

I'd settle for john Gall.

Martinez is top 50 prospect in all of baseball Wacha is like top 75

Also on a strictly scouting/stuff basis the opinion is Martinez over Wacha. Wacha has a good borderline great fastball that sits between 90-93 mph with lateral movement almost similar to a cutter. This is good but not as good as some like Miller's that is 92-96 mph and moves EVERYWHERE. Martinez has about the same movement and command of his fastball only its about as hard as Miller's if not more.

Wacha has a double plus change up which basically means it is pretty consistently insanely effective even if it isn't essentially one of the better one's in baseball. Carlos and Miller also throw change ups and Martinez might not be as good as Wacha's but Miller's is and it's sometimes even better.

All three guys throw the curve and this where the boys get separated from the men. Wacha throws a curve and it can be pretty good but he is just wildly inconsistent with it so you can't rely on it where as Shelby's is always at least decent and often good and sometimes great. Martinez can reportly spin this sucker. I haven't seen him do it yet because he hasn't been up enough but its supposed to be a good pitch that adds value.

Martinez can also throw a good Slider. It makes him a 4 pitch pitcher who can start and throw in the high 90s. Shelby throws mid to high 90s with 3 pitches. Wacha throws 2-2.5 pitches in the low to mid 90s. Miller has the best command and Wacha and Martinez are about the same. That's some scouts have compared Martinez to Pedro Martinez and have actually valued him higher than Shelby.

Side note Rosenthal throws 100 with a change up and a curve that are both FRIGGIN NASTY. I've seen his curve consistently crush dudes all year and he seriously needs to start because he is being wasted in the pen

I know your repeating scout talk but 2 things

1) Wacha/Miller's fastball command is day and night better than Carlos Martinez's at the present time. Watch the games, it's obvious.

2) Rosenthal obviously would not be throwing 97-100 mph as a starter. You can't physically do it. Lynn threw 95-97 when he was in our bullpen. Now he throws 90-93 as a starter so no Rosenthal is not being wasted. He's a dominate setup man.

Why would you limit Rosenthal to like 80 innings a season as a reliever when his stuff looks to be dominating enough to be a starter and get 200+ innings per year? He is being wasted if he continues as just a bullpen arm after this season.

Exactly you waste valuable innings you could have with Rosenthal starting. I'm not quick to make judgements on Martinez from his small appearances in the bigs just because they are( say it with me folks) a small sample size. Now I'm going to go check Martinez's walk rate and % of strikes thrown to see how his command has been this year at Memphis

Comparing Wacha to Martinez's strike out and walk rates shows that they are closer than I thought but there still some outliers. Wacha has 7.1 K/9 and somewhere in the low 3s in B/9 in 71 innings at Memphis. Martinez has 7.5 k/9 and 3.5 b/9 in 41 innings. They basically identically similar except that Martinez has less innings pitched so his sample size is way smaller.

They both have good but not great command so push at the moment. Shelby as ( I think) most of us know is leading the league in strikeouts so I would say he has a fairly strong command of the strike zone.

Id be stoked to have Rosenthal throw 200 innings if he could throw them at 97+.. 2 problems.. he's never thrown that many inning and therefore he'd have to throw at 93-95 to pace himself. If he becomes a starter who throws the 8th and 9th next year? we wanna go throw the Boggs scenario again?

It's better than keeping him there and wasting his potential we have a ton young pitchers who won't project to our full rotation and some money to veteran relievers as well. That sounds like a good recipe for success

Bunk....I just think you are greatly undervaluing Wacha.

Wacha is a fine starter but everyone is starting to overrate what we have with. That is the scouting wrap on Wacha that I wrote above. His curve isn't consistent enough to miss bats all the time or be an out pitch. Stuff wise Rosie, Shelby, and Carlos are ahead of him and he doesn't have enough secondary stuff to outweigh for much longer either. He will be our 5th starter in two years and pitch at the level of 3rd or even 2nd starter if he and the rest the gang pan out.

It's just the reality that because he was a way more polished prospect out if college than many gave him credit for that his ascension has been in a word overhyped

I think mo may have a clever move up his sleeve. He'll wait untill closer to the deadline when asking prices fall a bit.

The percentage chance of the Sox doing this is probably slightly above 0 but I'd try and trade Holliday and Martinez for Chris Sale.

No way they take Holiday's contract but I'd do that deal in a heartbeat

3 teamer.. Holliday to Texas, Martinez to Chicago, and rangers send a top pitching and hitting prospect to Chicago.

Ted Lilly would be an inexpensive chance

There is absolutely no way Holliday waves his no trade clause. Can stay in reality?

Why does nobody like Holliday? I understand the frustration in some of his at bats - they are pathetic. However, the guy has been .312, .296, .295 with 28, 22, 27 homers and two out of three full seasons with the Birds he's had over 100 RBIs. Those type of players don't just grow on trees.

He loves STL, people love him, from outward experience he seems like a guy that is respectable and I don't recall him ever making the news for something unprofessional - in other words I think he fits the Cardinal mold well.

I'm not sure why everybody is so quick to throw this guy to the side.

Holliday equals a really good hitter. When you have Molina, Craig, Beltran, Freese, Adams, Carpentar.. you really don't need a cleanup hitter who has a worse average than all of them making 3 times what any of them are making excluding Molina. If he made $8-10 million I could tolerate him, but he's not a necessity. Right now he's a Luxury an one that isn't producing like he's being paid. If we put Adams at 1b and Craig in left our production is either equal or slightly better at the current moment.. one combination is costing us $23 million to pay and one is cost $7 million to pay. So that's what makes it simple for me.

Sportsnerd: I understand your reasoning. Question: If Holliday were at his career (and/or Cardinal career) numbers at this point in the season would you still feel this way?

if it's 22 homers yes I'd feel this way.. if he was .320 with 30 homers 110 rbi's no.. but I would still feel like he was a luxury not a necessity. we have carp (14 million), Motte (5 million), Furcal (7 million), Wigginton (2.5), Garcia (6 Million) a total of $35 million in wasted contracts at this point in the year. if you add Holliday's to that, assuming we're ok with Adams/Craig combination, that's $52 we could have spent another way to boost needs such as anothe bonafied starter, back end reliever, shortstop, centerfielder.

not as bad as the Yankees though.

He is the least valuable portion of the offense considering age and contract. I love him but lets say we can Chris Sale. That is a young relatively cheap elite LHP who would be a game changer for the offense for years to come

I'd love Brian Wilson

I'd hate Brian Wilson.

why would u hate Brian Wilson? if he sucks cut him and if he's good we have a huge luxury.

He will be expensive no matter and its just not the time to experiment with a bullpen arm right now

Btw Bunky have ya seen MLB's top 100 prospects released today? Wacha at 18 and Martinez at 26.

Experiment? So your saying if we signed him for a reasonable price in July, put him in a couple blow out games in early August to see what he could do... That would be a bad decision? I'm glad you aren't the GM

And 1 more thing (I know I'm turnin into DW here). No one will give him a huge contract in the middle of the year like this coming off surgery, he will be cheap.

You won't sign him for a reasonable price because there's too many GMs who overvalue relievers in the closer role and names that will drive the price up, he's coming off of Tommy John so I don't see how he is any more valuable than most average relievers on the market, he was overrated when he was good and he's a distraction with all his goofy antics. I'd take the relievers we have in house over paying Brian Wilson for maybe an extra half-win.

And trust me, you aren't being nearly unreasonable or off base enough to be turning into DW.

What's the money we sign him for champ? How many years? Are the other ten or so teams who saw him gonna bid him up? What happens when his arm blows up for 3RD TIME and he has no other ligaments for TJ surgery? You think he realized his highly successful but equally destructive approach to pitching may have caused him to change to an unsuccessful approach that he doesn't have the talent or make up to pull off? DO YOU REALLY WANNA SEE HIM HAVE A BEARD GROWING CONTEST WITH MOTTE?!?!?!

All these are valuable questions that a GM has to consider and the utmost one is whether the time bomb in his elbow is taking away valuable innings someone else could pitching at a cheaper rate

I meant posting like 5 times in a row like DW, but I just don't see the problem of you can get him for cheap and I'm talkin like barely above league minimum for the rest of this year. I think everyone will be scared of him, like you said Bunk he might blow his arm out for the 3rd time. But I mean hell we are already payin Wiggy 5 million to watch family guy and eat Cheetos on his couch. You can never have too many good pitchers.

Rankings don't usually go off pure upside potential Mr. Kindy pants. They also try an assess risk and( this is a little bit of a personal reason but you see it is growing in popularity) the reason Wacha is higher on the list is that Martinez is really short. Scouts have believed short pitchers shouldn't be able to throw hard since ever so when one does everyone assumes he is an injury risk. Simply the scouts view this risk as a reason Martinez can't reach his full potential which they universally believe is higher than Wacha's. I think the height crap is way overstated and overrated so that's why I think is top ten in baseball pitching prospect wise

The issue is whether or not Wilson is a good pitcher at this point or if he will end eating cherries with Wiggy. If we can get him for a minor league deal than yeah give it a whirl but the fact is a dollar over the league minimum is too high for him

Well now that we've worked that out, I have a hard time seeing us trade for Lohse.

If we trade Wong, Carlos, and Kelly for Peavy and Alexi Ramirez I'll be embarrassed.