Who won???

Sweet dreams are made of these......Marilyn Manson is so awesome.

Would love for a youtuber to put up statements Biden made attacking the hell out of Obama in the primaries compared to the BS he spewed tonight. He was had no mercy for Obama while giving adulation to McCain, saying he would be honored to serve with him.....compared to saying Obama did not need to learn on the job. Now that is change.

Maddie, for not enjoying political blogs....you seem to have a tough time giving them up! Good choice !!!!! They are the most exciting, fun, and provocative!

Who's running for President?

Who's on first????

All kidding aside, Palin did handle herself much better than I feared she would, but the problems with her previous television interviews were still with her last night. When asked a direct question, she rarely gives a direct answer. Instead, she uses the opportunity to launch into a speech, which may or may not be on the subject.

I thought it was interesting that Biden trumped her on her favorite method of debate - which is to bring her family into the discussion and carry on about how she relates to the American people sitting around the kitchen table. In fact, this debate should be known as "The Kitchen Table Debate."

Biden mentioned the death of his wife, a subject which is not often included in a big debate. However, it was a good move on his part (and a tender moment), because his opponent does that sort of thing all the time! I'll bet she didn't see that coming!

Well GL, why wouldn't she have seen it coming? The media has only played that move several times in the last few weeks.

I think Sarah did a wonderful job. She quoted Reagan several times, which means she's either paid attention during a good era, or done her homework.

MD, I did form somewhat of an opinion AFTER the debate, because I didn't honestly know how many of the statistics they were throwing around were fact or fiction...and they just so happened to have a section about that about 15 minutes following the debate itself...but that was pretty much the only section I paid attention to, as I was putting my kids to bed directly following the final words. Yet another point in history where I thought a later bedtime would benefit the boys in the long run.

Biden did have a few good rebuttals, and I, too, enjoyed the laughter, good humor, and straight talk used. I guess that's one of the reasons Palin appeals to me. Her use of down home dialect calls to me, because it makes me think that she really does relate to me on family issues that I face everyday. I think she's perfect for the job because she didn't come into government as a lawyer, already making more money in a year than I see in 4 or 5. That's what this country needs.

mrsdolphin, I thought she overdid the down-home stuff and came across as a little fake. I do like her, and don't think she's any less qualified than Obama. I'll just be glad when it's all over.

AGREE Gardengal, will sincerely be glad when it is over....Looking forward to the US of A and all the change our savior, our hero, our leader....President Barrack Hussein Obama will bring us all. Dolphin, be careful or the GOAT is going to declare you have been listening to and acting like HOON:) Factcheck.org has a laundry list that goes on and on and on of things BOTH candidates mis-spoke about. Last thing though....Does it not even remotely concern any of you or anyone in the media that someone like Biden can COMPLETELY do a 180 on nearly ALL of his views in the short time between the primary and now? Free passes don't come so easy for Palin and McCain.

Yeah, read a list of untruths and misrepresentations made by BOTH candidates at www.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2081003/ap_on_el_pr/debate_fact_check.

Actually, it's one of the stories on today's yahoo main page.

Very interesting on both sides!

Well, that site doesn't work. I wonder why not?

I was worried about Sarah beforehand. A group of us gathered to watch the debate and actually had a prayer for her before it started!

Our prayers must have been answered because I thought Sarah Palin did a great job, darn ya! I had decided that if she even just held her own, she'd be fine, and that she did.

I agree that she tends to take a question and then launch into the words that come easily to her, but given her "non-Washington" experience and no training in spouting statistics and numbers, I think she did what was necessary.

I like Joe Biden. I'm glad that Obama chose him for his running mate. I fear that something could happen to Obama if he's elected, and I mean that sincerely and with great fear. I think, God forbid, if something would happen, Joe Biden could step in and do a great job.

Could Sarah Palin?

Why couldn't she? She could do as well as anyone else. Who really is trained best to be President? A Senator or Governor? No one can ever really ready to be President. We don't have a training class for our President.

I think it was a chess like draw. Bidden may have taken an extra pawn, but that doesn't equal a win for him. Yet, Bidden should have crushed her. Ater all he has been in the U.S. Senate since Richard Nixon began his second term in 1972, so he knows the nuances of national and foreign affairs issues inside out.

That Palin could talk him to a draw is remarkable considering not only that Bidden has been a senator since she was 8-years-old, but because her entire focus was on Alaska state affairs until five weeks ago; she has four school age children, including Trig; and, she has to attend to Alaska state affairs while she is on the campaign trail, and she has had to psychologically deal with being hammered in the press for weeks about everything from her alleged lack of qualifications, to her alleged affair, to "Troopergate," and on and on. And she knew that if she bombed the last month of the campaign would be merely academic to Obama's assured election in November. Talk about a pressure situation!!! Several times during the debate I thought to myself how it was almost unbelievable how cool and focused she was in a pressure situation that few people will ever experience in a lifetime -- and on live national television!!!

After the debate one of the men she defeated for governor was interviewed at a post-debate Palin party. He said many people, including him, said the same things about her when she ran for governor as they are saying now nationally -- she didn't have enough experience, she didn't know enough, etc. -- and she proved them wrong by rising to the challenge. And he is now supporting her.

If Palin showed anything at the debate is she has the moxie to rise to a challenge. And remember, without her McCain wouldn't have a SBCIH of winning in November, and at this point they still have a shot.

FJGuy, Biden could not, would not, should NOT have "crushed" Palin! That would have been the worst of all possible mistakes! He would have fallen into the precise pitfall that had been set for him! Imagine the outcry from all sides if he had been aggressive toward such a sweet, pretty young lady!! Especially one who constantly makes reference to her motherhood!

Mom and apple pie - you can't attack them!

It's as if DOLPHIN is running for vice president! No wonder she likes her! She IS her! (Pardon that grammar...It should be "She is she," but that sounds ridiculous!!!)

And, oh, my - Palin's been "hammered by the press" for weeks! Welcome to the real world, chickie baby! How traumatic! She's going into the Big Leagues - What do you expect?

So obvious that you have a double standard for her, FJ. Her "vulnerability" brings out the he-man in all you big rugged guys who would just LOVE to take darling Todd's place (isn't that super hubby's name?).

You are so transparent!

I'm a far cry from her. I'd crumble like a rock under the pressure of a debate against a former lawyer/pro politician that should shine in such an event! You were a mom too, you tackled teaching, parenthood, being a wife, just as I (minus the teaching thing)...so wouldn't that make you her also?

MD, With your speech teaching background you'll love this. Scientific analysis shows that Biden spoke at a 7th grade language level during the debate, while Palin spoke at an average of almost a 10th grade level. Some of Palin's sentences were rated at Ph.D. level!! Sounds like evidence she is trying to appeal to people who think and make decisions with their brains and not just their emotions like Biden is. Palin's word usage rated almost as high as Abraham Lincoln during his 1858 debates with Stephen A. Douglas -- when he spoke at an 11th grade level. Says a lot for Lincoln that his name can be said in the same breath as Sarah Palin! See the article, http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.words/?iref=mpstoryview

As for the media pounding of Palin, it is useful to keep in mind that Obama has gotten a virtually free pass from the mainstream media so they could avoid being labeled as racist. Palin's gender doesn't shield her the way Obama's skin color does. If dozens of investigators working for The National Enquirer, the RNC and major newspapers and magazines had gone to Chicago and everywhere else Obama has lived and worked and gone to school, and interviewed everyone he's ever talked to and poured over all his records who knows what would have been found. He hasn't been thoroughly vetted the way Palin has been and continues to be. It is comical to hear people talk about Obama's life and refer to one of his autobiographies as the source! Unfortunately the primary critical analysis of Obama has been by obviously pro-Republican orgs and individuals. It would be interesting to know what the truth about Obama's life is from people with no political agenda.

I think lots of folks arent happy about the last 8 years, we'll see come Nov 4th.

FJGuy, what the heck difference does the MEDIA make when you KNOW how Obama was TRASHED in the secret confines of everyone's living rooms?? So nobody had the foolishness to call him all those names on TELEVISION - Would you like for me to post some of the things that were said about him in PRIVATE emails?? I would get banned from the blogs, if I did! Go to Snopes.com and click on "politics," and take a look for yourself at some of the MILDER urban myths which are circulating.

And, as for your information about reading levels, gimme a break! Of course some of her phrasing would be at "PhD. level"! Where do you think she GOT all that information?? From a BOOK - That's where! So, she did her homework. Good for her! It's encouraging that she has research ability. She's gonna need it when she's VP!

You're right, dolphin - Palin definitely connects with the women of this country, because they're all thinking "Oh, she has to be right for the job - She's just like me!"

Oh, yeah - There's the myth: Take Joe (or Josephine) Smoe off the street (or out of the kitchen) and put him/her in the White House! The American Dream!

The thing is, I'm not so foolish as to think I could DO it. The office of VP should not be PLAYED as a political gambit to win votes for a party that knows it's going to lose a Presidential race if it doesn't pull a rabbit out of a hat! Palin is the RABBIT!

Make no mistake: She WILL win the Presidency for the Republicans. Then, let's just pray to God that McCain doesn't DIE IN OFFICE!

All this is only a small fraction of the reason why I have misgivings about Palin - and I don't care to get into the other issues right now...

As stated on the homepage, political debates generally don't change my opinion. They make for good entertainment. Yesterday's St.Louis Post Dispatch had an article showing some of the misleading or incorrect statements of both Palin and Biden- Statement vs Fact! Very interesting! Palin did better than I expected and Biden did as well as expected. I'd like a debate between third party candidates. Gl, I know they don't have a prayer of getting elected, but it would still be interesting.

A side note: as "far right' as I am, I've noticed I have more Black friends as a result of taking a more independent/third party political view. I can point out the flaws and major dissagreements I have with Obama and not be painted as a racist. If I can just get them to see that the Democratic Party doesn't speak for them as much as they think it does! And if I can convince them that conservative black columnists and economists have their best interests at heart!

GL, I was specifically referring to the established/mainstream media's treatment of Sarah Palin. The media that allegedly reports the facts and is unbiased. I just read an op-ed praising how Tina Fey is the hottest comedian in the country for her caricature of Palin. That hasn't and won't happen with Obama because he's black ... and she's just a woman so she is fair game. MD recently wrote about the sufferage movement, and there is still a ways to go. Just last night I saw Brian Williams, NBC's news anchor, trash Palin over and over on David Letterman's show, which went along with Letterman's trashing of McCain. If Obama losses it won't be because of the mainstream media's treatment of him.

You may be despairing unnecessarily, GL. This is the most unbiased electoral map webpage I've found. It is based on a composite of different polls, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/maps/obama_vs_mccain/?map=5

I KNOW I couldn't do it. But the difference is, I think she may very well be resourceful enough, and intelligent enough, to do it...experience aside.

Still looks red to me, FJ.

And who cares about Tina Fey? Some of the best impersonations I ever saw were of Ronald Reagan, and it never hurt his Teflon suit! In fact, one of my students gave a DYNAMITE impersonation of that smiling, head-shaking "There you go again!" president! Didn't hurt him a BIT! And it won't hurt Palin.

That's H-U-M-O-R and entertainment, FJ! Only a misguided knight-in-shining-armor like you would take it seriously!

And I'm well-aware of which "media" you're referring to. I don't know who calls them "mainstream," but I agree that they certainly aren't.

Still, we need to keep in mind that the MEDIA is mostly after stories, and they're not above stirring things up to get them!

(Excluding the local media around here, of course...)

Okay --- one more thing: Swift, you are about as remarkably objective in these postings as anyone I ever saw - even our sweet little right-wing-leaning I.B. LeTruth. In fact, the two of you make a good team to bring the rest of us down to earth when we get too wild!

You had a posting on the main page that I thought was brilliant! ....Now if I could just remember what it WAS..... Oh, yeah - Your 5-point analysis of the VP debate! Wonderful!!

Even Hoon couldn't accuse you of a lack of "credibility"!

MD, Interesting Op-Ed column in today's New York Times by Frank Rich that Palin's debate performance makes it plain to him that the best bet for the Repubs is for McCain to step aside and allow Palin to run for President! The article is at, http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/opinion/05rich.html?hp

MD, Palin's debate performance impressed the heck out of Hillary ... and Obama doesn't like it one bit! Bill Clinton has also made a number of favorable comments about Palin since the Repub Convention. The Times of London reported on Oct 5:

HILLARY CLINTON, Barack Obama's defeated opponent in the Democratic primary, has infuriated his supporters by praising Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential candidate, for her performance in last week's television debate.

"It is amazing, you know, she's been thrust in the spotlight with very little national preparation and I think, all things considered, you saw a very composed and effective debater," Clinton said.

Her husband Bill recently issued some compliments of his own. "I come from Arkansas, I get why she's hot out there," he said.

Of course Hillary would compliment Palin! She is, after all, a woman! She'd look pretty mean-spirited, if she didn't acknowledge Palin's performance.

I'm not saying that Palin didn't do a good job in the debate. On the contrary, she was just peachy keen: She was dramatic, and glitzy, and folksy, and down-home apple pie cute! She did her homework and drew in a BUNCH of facts (on a PhD. level!)...

She made it sound as if the resources in her state were gonna single-handedly save the U.S. from all those mean ole oil-rich countries and their hijacking ways. Alaska to the Rescue!!! (Let's hope they have as much oil as she seems to think they do. Once they rape the countryside and drill in ANWR, we'll see, won't we?)

She very shrewdly reminded all the Republicans of their GOD, Ronald Reagan, when she cackled, "There you go again!" It worked for Reagan - Why shouldn't it work for her??

My goodness gracious sake, she was just so gosh-darned perfect - how could all those political analysts NOT think she should be at the TOP 'O THE TICKET???

And, of course, Mr. Glitz Himself - Bill Clinton - would recognize her potential as a powerhouse for the future. She's a dad-blasted Juggernaut! She'll ROLL OVER all the competition! Her face will be on TIME and NEWSWEEK and ROLLING STONE!

Maybe they'll even chisel her into Mt. Rushmore!

So she's finally the new Miss America. Forget what she believes and what she wants to DO and what she wants to get rid of and how she wants to shape the country into her idea of perfection...

And, if someone disagrees with her, she'll just give them a glitzy smile and say, "Aw, gosh darn, there ya go again!"

Ok, GL...never, and I mean NEVER, heard you so defensive on a topic before. That sounding like an old bitty comment you mentioned before is starting to take shape, and I'd never seen it fit you before. So, instead of me thinking of you that way, can you please explain EXACTLY what it is you have against her? Because, even though we've been back and forth on this Palin thing, I think you're a pretty rockin lady...now you sound bitter. What's up?

And FJ, I love your comments...well, all but one.

Of course Bill Clinton would like her...she's a good looking woman with dark brown hair in politics...need I say more?

Well, I really don't like to get into this topic, dolphin, but I hardly think an "old bitty" would have the same attitude I do about Sarah Palin. It has nothing to do with the way she looks, actually, though I feel that her looks and charm make her all the more dangerous.

I'm sure you've researched her positions on social issues, and I think you probably agree. However, I don't. She's even more conservative than McCain, and she has the charm to put her agendas into effect.

Which of FJ's comments don't you like? The part about Billy Boy thinking she's "hot," right?

Right now, I find FJ irksome...(obviously)..but I'll get over it. He adds a BUNCH of good stuff to these blogs. As irritating as his Palin info is, it makes for good conversation.

I didn't realize I could get so... mmmm..critical?

Yeah, GL, it was the "hot" comment. I'm not at all a fan of Bill Clinton...and that definetely irked me! I know that she's good looking...especially for as many children as she has, and her age...but I'm not sure voters like me pay much attention to that part. Her wholesome appeal does appeal to me...but I like other things too. I have done research...b/c at the beginning of this crap, I couldn't decide on the "lesser of two evils." So I had to do something to make up my mind.

GL, I don't mind your positions. I agree with you on some of them, but the part about the oil drilling raping the countryside is a little far fetched. Come on, an oil well takes up less space than my yard. Like I mentioned before, it is not the oil wells that ruin the environment. The majority of it comes from spills at the Jiffy Mart. Be careful when you are pumping your gas and checking your oil. As far as I am concerned if Alaska, Florida and California don't want us drilling then I am all for not shipping them coal from the Appalachians.

It isn't the oil well itself that has such a large footprint - it's all the related paraphenalia. And from what I've read, the amount of oil doesn't justify the effort to get it.

And I doubt if you agree with me on everything, I.B.....

Two quick points....

Dextermite...need more than folks are unhappy with last eight years. Not good enough.

2, of course Bill AND HILLARY are going to do little subtle things to support McCain Palin. They don't do ANYthing without tact. This is no different. If Hussein wins, it will be a minimum of 8 years before Pant suit can run. If McCain wins, she will be back and ready to go next time. They are the most self centered, arrogant couple in America.

Mr hooney, we couldnt stand another 8 like the last 8. Anything except more of the same.

As usual....all complaining with no solutions from the liberals. Not arguing about the state of the nation with you dextermite, but you have never given any substantial plans for changing America. It is funny that we are fixing to elect a guy who sat on a Board and held a fundraiser at a known terrorists house, had a 20+ year relationship with a pastor who hates America and whites in general, and whose wife was proud of this country for the first time at the ripe ole age of 43!

Not everything, but if there isn't any oil there the oil companies will not waste their effort will they. So, what are you worried about? What damage will it do? How many anmials will be impacted? You don't know do you. Where they want to drill there probably isn't any animals. They are too smart to be there.

What makes you think I don't know? You don't know, do you? Maybe I do know. You're sounding a little more reckless than is your custom, Mr. LeTruth.

Do a search on Anwar Oil and you will find both Obama and McCain are against drilling in Anwar and it shows only 1% of the worlds needs could be found by 2030,,, hardly worth the effort if you read the complete article. Its one of those 'feel good' propositions.

I.B., when the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline was being delayed while the ecologists fought the manner of its construction in court, I, along with probably 95% of the people in Fairbanks thought they were crazy. But in hindsight I know most of the enmity towards the ecologists was because a lot of Fairbanks residents were being hurt financially by the uncertainty of when (or if) the pipeline's construction would begin. But I'm glad they prevailed in causing the pipeline to be elevated in parts to allow for migration of the Caribou and other animals, and that it was redesigned to prevent melting of the permafrost (which also reduced the likelihood of a spill from a break). The far North is teaming with animal and plant life, but the eco-system is extremely fragile because summer is so short. It is easy to dismiss the Alaskan Arctic because it is about as real as the surface of the Moon to most Americans, so what happens there just doesn't seem important.

The precautions taken in handling the oil in the Alaskan Arctic aren't sufficient because just two years ago there was a major spill of more than a 1/4 million gallons of crude oil at Prudhoe Bay (where the oil fields are). Keep in mind that such spills don't directly cost the oil companies any money, because they only pay the State of Alaska 16.5% of the world oil price for oil shipped out of Valdez. About the same time it was discovered that the oil company consortium skimped on the thickness of the pipe used to build the pipeline, and the interior wear caused by the oil friction is making the likelihood of a major break more likely. All in all, I'd rather see a major alternate energy effort undertaken than to risk more drilling in Alaska.

You said it, guys! Thanks! FJGuy, you are redeemed ten-fold!!

Do an extensive search and you will find arguments for both sides of this subject. For MD to say Dextermite is right on target is ridiculous and one-sided, which I have come to expect. I would argue we aren't searching for the WORLD's needs, we are searching for US needs so that we can stop relying solely on foreign oil. The environmentalist wackO argument is the least credible of all your side should use.

I had a cousin who had a cousin who had a cousin who had a cousin.

I"m one of those josephine six pack people. (wink) I stood behind Hilarly Clinton one hundred percent. When she lost I was also one of those people who set around the table and said some of those off the wall things about Obama. I regret that (I think everyone had something to say, at least we said them in are own home)because I just showed how far really we haven"t moved from 1950"s. Now McCain went one step futher and chose a woman trying to have Hilary voters change parties.There are alot of women out here(with brains under thier haircolor)who still believe that that the last 8 years will be the hardest to recover from. I"m tired of robbing Peter to pay Paul.Trying to figure out which is more important buying groceries or pay the sky rockerting gas bills. We all need a change.I can look around and see hunderds of people who is in the same boat. I was a girls little soft ball coach and I also had a granddaughter who had seizures and never walked and talked from her 2nd birthday.She passed away (God bless her soul when she was 8) and left a big hole in all of her families hearts. I can understand how hard Palin life has been, but get real there are alot of families doing the same thing she raising thier children with handicaps. Don"t slide into that trap! We need a change, we cannot, should not have to live like this for another 4 years. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GO VOTE!!!! Either way you vote, vote for thier politics not for thier heart aches. Vote for a better tomorrow, a better world to raise our children in.

I still say if there is no oil there then you won't have to worry about oil companies drilling will you. 1% of the worlds oil needs in that relatively small place is actually quite a lot. That means there can only be 99 other places in the world with equal or more oil. Since we know that countries in the Middle East, Russia, Mexico, Venezuela and the North Sea probably have vast amounts percentage wise that means that ANWAR could actually be one of the most productive and valuable fields.

If there were only 100 pennies in the world and a small numnber of people had the majority of those pennies, but everyone in the world needed those pennies then a single loose penny, (1%) would actually very valuable. 1% of what we use everyday is a whole bunch.

The rhetoric doesn't add up. We should have that penny. To not have it means the other 99 pennies are worth more and hence you get to see it at the pumps.

People who don't want you to have that penny have their own agenda. Maybe they want to sell you a wind mill or a solar cell or CNG.

By the way, how much is it going to cost to build all those CNG tanks and place them at gas stations? How much of our resources are we going to use to build them? Who is going to do that? Who is going to provide the steel? Who is going to pay for those? Not the CNG companies, you will. CNG will not be cheaper than gas to use in your vehicle.

If only there were a company out there to build cars that get 60-70 miles per gallon. We could do it....the question is why don't we do it?

GM, Ford, and Chrysler are about to go bankrupt...yet they will not change their ways. Now, it is too late to save themselves.

One reason is that a car that gets 60-70 mpg most people don't want to ride in, especially if it is a work vehicle. You can't haul the soccer team in one of those vehicles. You can barely get your spouse in it with you. We have a ways to go on this.

Wildcat67, there are vehicles out there that get that kind of gas mileage. And you can be **** sure that the Big 3 could make all kinds of vehicles that get that kind of gas mileage. But they will not do it. It's the same reason they can make light bulbs that burn forever or tires that will not wear out. But if companies did this, where would the money come from, or so they think.