Dexter Daily Statesman

A scene from "Multiplicity"

Posted Monday, July 16, 2007, at 8:49 AM
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Since we are on the subject of cloning, as with my last blog, I am going to expand a little farther.

If we begin cloning animals, do you think it will stop there? Will mankind be satisfied once we have genetic duplicate cows, pigs and sheep running around? Or will they think that now that they have mastered the technique, they should move on to something a little more challenging and have the animal cloning to use as a weapon against those who oppose the idea?

If we begin with the cloning of animals, will we become so desensitized to the whole "playing God" scenario that cloning humans will no longer be a big deal to us? Would it then be alright to make a clone of yourself to keep around for "spare parts" in case something of yours just happens to go bad?

Some of you may remember a movie made with Michael Keaton some years ago called Multiplicity in which Keaton's character finds himself in trouble after having several "copies" of himself made -- one to go to work, one to spend time with the family, etc. It all went bad when those copies actually started thinking and feeling on their own.

If cloning animals is okay, which I'm not saying it isn't, why wouldn't cloning people be okay? What do you think?

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Well...I think it would be a far away time and place before people would go for cloning humans, but maybe not.

-- Posted by jabelson on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 1:12 PM

Mmmm... Jabelson, you are a shadow of your former self. You must have used all your energies on Corey's site, though I haven't had time to check it yet.

This topic reminds me of a Ray Bradbury short story called "Marionette, Inc." I believe. I think it's from his book, "The Illustrated Man." A man buys a special clone of himself to be with his demanding wife, and then the clone (who actually may have been a robot, now that I think of it) falls in love with the wife and locks the husband in the box.

Science fiction writers have been playing around with this theme for years. I guess science is beginning to catch up with fiction!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 4:12 PM

I love Bradbury! A science fiction writer with the prose of a poet!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 4:14 PM

Oh, but back to the topic! I fear that man will not be satisfied until he is God. And then he will destroy himself!

Wonderful science fiction story on that topic -- Stephen Vincent Benet (even older) -- "By the Waters of Babylon."

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 4:25 PM

Sacha Champion's response:

That is exactly my fear! At what point will people stop? Great point and thanks for the posts!

I am a bit fatigued. I am actually enrolled in classes during the week, and I spent most of my energy over the weekend debating politics. Now I have to give a little bit of attention to the people I'm paying to lecture me.

-- Posted by jabelson on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 5:26 PM

However, the idea makes me think of 'Brave New World,' by Aldous Huxley. One of my high school teachers told me that I would see many parallels between this book and modern society. I'm starting to see what that teacher meant.

-- Posted by jabelson on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 5:30 PM

I think cloning has been occurring for a while. Little clones everywhere.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 8:27 PM

Oh, yes! Brave New World is an even better example of cloning than the stories I mentioned! Huxley wrote it in - what, 1932? - and look how much of it is becoming a reality! Really quite frightening.

I thought you sounded a bit tired, Mr. Jabelson! Still, consider all this conflict of opinion a part of your education. You're putting what you've learned into practice, aren't you? Mental sparring!

I have to ask what you're studying. Surely it's political science?

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 10:05 PM

Aren't we close to cloning humans already? I think so. As old as I am, I may still see it.

Cloning people may be more acceptable than cloning animals.

I presume that I would get to make the choice if I would be cloned or not. Maybe they wouldn't let me, I don't know. Would there be controls on who could or couldn't. Could I make a thousand if I had the money. Could I claim them on my taxes?

What business is it of anyone else's if I want to be cloned? Would it be like telling me that I can only have a certain number of children? Would I be able to dispose of a clone if I didn't want it around any more since I had it made or produced like any other product. What would the liabity be if I injured someone else's clone. Could I claim them on my taxes?

This subject might be too difficult for me before we even get to the morality question.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Jul 16, 2007, at 10:35 PM

Sacha Champion's response:

Thanks Le Truth! I hadn't even thought of the legal issues surrounding cloning. That is a whole new can of worms that would have to be considered if -- or when -- the time for cloning humans comes. I hadn't really expected to find someone who would be willing to be cloned, so it's great to hear your opinion. Thanks for the postings!!

You're right about that Truth. The issue can go much deeper than is it morally right or wrong to clone people. To me the morality part is like all moral questions...open to interpretation. However, the bureaucracy would raise more questions than I'd care to attempt to answer.

-- Posted by jabelson on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 2:36 AM

Mmm.. This cloning thing raises all sorts of legal issues, as well as moral ones, doesn't it? I admit that I hadn't even considered the liability issue, since I never really considered that the cloning would ever be a reality. If it does become possible, the legal minds will have to hop onto it.

Right now, let's hope the Frankenstein image might make scientists back off from the irresponsible cloning of humans. UGH!! There's plenty of precedence for a man's creation to turn on him! Ah....Jurassic Park? If we can recreate dinosaurs for our own entertainment, we reap what we sow.....

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...and a lot of knowledge doesn't necessarily bring wisdom.

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 7:07 AM

Sacha Champion's response:

Well said!

I think we will do it, just a matter of time.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 7:08 AM

Sacha Champion's response:

I believe -- and fear -- you are right. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the future brings!

I'm sure it would happen eventually, but I'm not sure if it will happen anytime soon. At least I'd hope not. I'd rather see other issues addressed in our nation before we open up more cans of worms.

-- Posted by jabelson on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 11:15 AM

Science doesn't always consider the issues that NEED to be addressed - Sometimes the scientific minds just seem to want to prove they can surmount any challenge - a "Look what I can do!!" mentality.

I agree, I.B. It's just a matter of time. In "Brave New World," Huxley foresaw a time when "hatcheries" (people factories) competed with each other to see how MANY times they could get one human egg to "bud," thus creating 96 or more identical twins. So I guess, technically, Jabelson, they were tripletts, quads, and on up - not really clones, as such.

Ah, some of us live in a world of fiction - and then it becomes real....

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 6:38 PM

Yes, there are scientists out there right now, probably in Europe, working on cloning humans. Just because we (eventually) can do it doesn't mean we should do it. It will definitely be built in job security for the lawyers of the world and will tie up the court system for decades.

Can you imagine the backlash against the poor clones who had no say in their creation? If anyone does actually create a clone they'll have to keep it a deep, dark secret for a long time.

I hope I don't live to see it.

-- Posted by Ducky on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 8:59 PM

I have a theory (unproven, of course) that the Europeans are uninhibited by our early Puritan values. Do you think this is plausible? They seem to go unfettered into the Brave New World of science - for better or worse.

And have you seen British television? Steamy!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Jul 17, 2007, at 9:56 PM