Dexter Daily Statesman

Talk about catching a tiger by the tail!

Posted Friday, December 28, 2007, at 10:24 AM
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Talk about catching a tiger by the tail!

A 350-pound female Siberian tiger by the name of Tatiana escaped her pen at the San Francisco Zoo Christmas Day and started a rampage that left one 17-year-old dead and two other teens hospitalized with serious injuries before being shot to death by four police officers.

Zoo officials have now admitted that the wall surrounding the tiger's pen isn't exactly as tall as it should be, only a mere 12.5 feet tall. I'm sure that the zoo is facing at least three serious lawsuits in the future, unless they manage to get the families to settle out of court.

But here's my gripe with this, should the families be able to sue the zoo? Is this something that the zoo could have foreseen happening?

My personal opinion is no, there is no way the zoo could have known something like this could happen, despite the fact that the tiger had attacked a zookeeper nearly a year ago. By the very definition of wild animal, their actions are completely unpredictable. No one could guess that this tiger would have been able to do something like this.

What I'm trying to say is that I think that the zoo did everything they could to ensure the safety of zoo-goers and that I think we all assume some sort of liability for own own actions upon entering a zoo or circus. These are wild animals and we know what could happen when we walk through the gates. Maybe if the zoo had been negligent it would be different, but I just don't think they were.

What's your take?

Also, I want to wish everyone a Happy New Year and remind everyone that if you're going to be drinking, please selected a designated driver prior to going to your decided upon party spot. A little planning beforehand could ensure that everyone arrives home on New Year's Day alive and happy!

Comments
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I feel that not enough facts are known yet,whether it was a low wall,open gate,obnoxious patrons, or any combination of human error.It is sad the tiger was killed for being a tiger,where was the zoo's own response team? How did the cops arrive before the people who are supposed to be there anytime it's open?

What about this boy's parents, I cannot imagine losing a 17 year old to die a terrible death in a public zoo.

If there was negligence on the zoo's part,especially after the zoo keeper's mauling last year,I feel they do have the right to sue. The public does not assume they will be mauled or eaten when they enter a zoo,or a circus because experts run these places and the expectation is a safe,educational and entertaining experience.

You do not sign a waiver,like you do with skydiving,scuba diving, or many other thrill seeking events. It is not the intended purpose to ever kill off your ticketholders,and with the exhibition of wild animals you must be vigilant.

I realize there are more nuisance lawsuits than anyone can ever imagine,but if there were no lawsuits,there would be no safety standards to protect the public,because standards are expensive,cumbersome and difficult to implement.

Nothing is perfect,but we can't stop trying to make things better.

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:00 AM

I may not have heard the story correctly...but given I heard it the way I think I did...wasn't their retaining wall below guidelines? If so, then I say the family has EVERY right to sue...but way more than the zoo. Doesn't every zoo have a crew of inspectors that come in to check that the zoo is correctly following guidelines? I may need someone to clear this up for me. B/c I had kids jumping around and making memories last night while I attempted to watch the story. So some of it was inaudible. But please do. I don't want to sound like a complete idiot on a topic I'm not sure I know much a/b. Thanks.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 11:05 AM

It doesn't matter what or how it happened. The zoo is responsible and a young man is dead.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 12:05 PM

If your dog attacks someone and bites them you will be sued so their cat bites and they will be sued.

-- Posted by rusty nail on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 12:46 PM

Rusty,that is an excellent point.

They did not go on safari,they went in a public area with every expectation of a fun,safe visit.

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Fri, Dec 28, 2007, at 5:59 PM

Well, certainly, you're all right, but I find it really, really irritating that these creatures of the wild are put in enclosures and subjected to some of the most idiotic baboons ON THE OUTSIDE of the cages.

I'm sure you've heard that a shoeprint was discovered on top (or the other side?) of the wall. It isn't known whether these boys were taunting the tiger - but lots of immature people do!

I understand the philosophy that zoos promote a love of animals - and, thus, help preserve endangered animals in the wild - but when something like this happens, you really have to wonder if PETA is right in opposing the very existence of zoos.

Maybe we SHOULD have to sign a waiver when we enter a zoo. Perhaps it would make more people aware of the gravity of the situation. These animals are not tame and never will be.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 7:08 AM

I visited a zoo in Minneapolis not long ago and was horrified to find that the heavy-duty, specially-reinforced glass at the gorilla enclosure was CRACKED in one spot!! It was obvious that someone had taunted the male gorilla, and he was making very scarey in-roads on coming right through the glass!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 7:13 AM

I understand your point GL,but don't you also think that nature shows,and free public zoo also help nurture a respect and love of critters for the majority of decent humans?

If zoos didn't educate the public by showing these animals and try to preserve rare species,why would anyone ever care about the animal preserves in Africa,or pandas in China,etc.?

Animal conservation programs do rely on caring persons to donate money and time to make their programs successful,and if you haven't seen a beautiful giraffe,why would you part with your beautiful cash to keep them from being hunted?

I think that this tragedy should make all zoos step up to the plate on security, and when you have people tampering with exhibits,they should be arrested.

I have never understood people who have birds as pets-if any of God's creatures were meant to be free,it would be a bird. Now that is cruel,in my opinion!

I refuse to take PETA seriously until they quit using skanky starlets to pose nude,celebrities who drink,drug, and poison the air with their cigarettes.PETA's porno ad campaigns offends me to my very soul,I wouldn't take any advice from their star member Pamela Anderson,or whatever her name is this week!

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 9:22 AM

GL, I will say this between you and MD, I will not eat goat meat ever again! I will always think of your description of their eyes,and the funny stories about them- I have been educated on the precious little ruminants and know they are great sources of dairy,but not the burger-yecch!

I also know to stay clear of Billy-he may be cute,but he can knock you on your fanny if you don't have a cattle prod-lol!

You two may not be in the classroom anymore,but you still can teach!

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 9:33 AM

The popular belief is that zoos promote respect for wildlife and serve to teach children about conservation and nature. What's natural about seeing animals languish inside tiny enclosures which aren't even close to half the size of the animals' natural habitats? What zoos teach is that it's acceptable for humans to snatch animals from their natural homes and stick them in a cage for our own personal reasons. What we should be teaching is that humans are stewards for animals and that we must do what's in the animals' best interests. That does not include placing wild animals in captivity, claiming we're doing it for conservation and all the while continuing to destroy these animals' natural habitats.

-- Posted by Youngest Child on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 12:57 PM

Yellow Rose, you do an old teacher/goatherder's heart good!!

As for the zoo issue, I've always loved them and respected their power to educate the public. I do hope that their good points outweigh their bad ones.

Don't you find it odd that we have no witness reports on this last disaster? Could those three boys have been out there at the lion's enclosure all by themselves? Ordinarily, CBS would be all over that story, looking for someone to put on camera and tell the sordid details. Tiger maulings make for sensational news.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 1:43 PM

Oops! YC, how did your posting get by mine? Mmm...I must have sat on it too long.

That's an interesting irony - We imprison the endangered animals, while we are simultaneously destroying their habitat! Mmm..However, I don't know that the same humans are responsible for both actions.

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 1:46 PM

The real question here is was this preventable? It surely is. Even if there was taunting or the boys would have been inside the cage. That is preventable too and this should not have happened. The zoo is in the end 100% responsible for the safe care of the tiger and the safety of the public.

Was there a shoe print? Who's was it? Could have been there for months. The latest article I read on the story seems to indicate that the tiger was not being taunted.

These young men and the tiger were both victims.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 3:01 PM

Oh, I certainly agree that the zoo is responsible - shoeprint or no shoeprint. They have to cover any possibilities.

I googled the topic and discovered that the reports vary widely. In one, it said that no one knew who the 17-year-old was; in another, it quoted the young man's father, who said that his son diverted the tiger's attention away from him and thus saved his life.

I also read about a previous attack by the same tiger on a zookeeper, who had her arm "eaten" by the animal, when it reached through and caught her through some sort of grate.

Sounds as if this zoo is not a very good place to work - or visit!

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Dec 29, 2007, at 4:02 PM

YC- you make some very valid points. How do you think anyone would ever learn about animals? I think where the lovely wild animals live,conservation is not a priority with them. I'm sure a lot of damage to their habitats come from natives trying survive and greedy land developers.If every zoo in the world closed today,what would happen to the existing animals? Would they have to be slaughtered? They are not native to our area,so doubtful they could be adopted and survive-where? In cages? What do you think should be done with these existing zoos?

I really think contributions to wildlife conservancy would dry up,and then poachers will have free reign,because no one will even attempt to stop them.I still love the St.Louis Zoo,one of my favorite places ever.

I have to agree with GL though, I don't think the the same humans who are destroying the animals habitat are the zoo keepers. I really do feel that zoos do a great service,although not perfect,as you have pointed out. With GL's mention there are definitely inferior zoos out there. Of course,there are some who believe NO animal should ever be domesticated as a pet for human enjoyment,and others who believe in the vegan lifestyle,they have their personal beliefs that is fine.

I have been domesticated by my cat and I appear to only exist in HER home for her amusement. I try so hard to please Miss Priss,but she never seems to have any quality time for me! Is there any help for me-lol?

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 10:17 AM

This morning, I had an errant thought, as I watched my cat Louie stalking around the house: What if he were bigger than I was? Would he eat me???

Mmmm...interesting thought!

Cats are domesticated, but, (sometimes I think) only marginally.

I have that image in my head of one of the San Francisco victims, sitting outside the restaurant (where he tried to get them to let him in), his head all bloody, and the big tiger sitting calmly beside him -- just the way I've seen cats toy with a mouse.

Is my cat's size the only thing that keeps him from looking at me as FOOD???

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 6:37 PM

I think every zoo in the world should be closed. A zoo is nothing more than a prison for animals who have done absolutely nothing to deserve their imprisonment. What kind of subconscious conditioning influence does that have on children -- and that continues on into adulthood?

Humans put animals in zoos because he/she can -- everything else is rationalizing. Would deer or tigers or bears put humans in zoos if they could? I don't know, but for some reason I think not.

GL, I have heard of cats who ate their human companions to survive after the person died in a house and the body wasn't discovered for a while. That seems perfectly acceptable and natural.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 7:40 PM

They wouldn't put you in a Zoo, they would just kill you and eat you and bury what is left for a later snack. Some of the greatest conservationist in the world operate Zoos. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. They have probably saved many endangered species, including the Panda.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Dec 30, 2007, at 8:26 PM

Well, I feel so much better knowing that they would save part of my mangled body for a late night snack. Thanks, I.B.!

I still think that it would be possible to conduct a WELL-RUN zoo. Years ago, I took my young son to the Seattle Zoo, where they had rabbits hopping around under the pine trees and banty hens with little chicks following along behind them. The guinea hens ran loose, too.

It was wonderful!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Dec 31, 2007, at 7:37 PM

It can be done. You can build a zoo to protect the people and animals from each other and provide a great environment for the animals. I think the Kansas City zoo provides a nice place for the animals but it is a little tiring for the visitors. It is worth it though. Something will probably happen there tomorrow now that I have mentioned it.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Jan 1, 2008, at 2:33 PM

Oh, let's hope not!

I've always taught my children to love and respect animals, and, looking back, I feel sure that my son's early experience at zoos like Seattle is one of the things that shaped him into a sensitive, caring person, who has used his intellect to improve the world around him.

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 8:09 AM

I hope not too. I like taking my grandchildren there. It will wear you out though because of the way it is set up you have to walk a whoooole lot. Of course it doesn't bother them.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Jan 2, 2008, at 8:51 AM