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Tuesday, Jan. 17, 2017
The former Daily Statesman is now The Dexter Statesman and currently does not have an operating website.

Here we go again!

Posted Tuesday, October 7, 2008, at 6:50 AM

You knew it was going to happen, didn't you? This week the candidates announced that it was "No more Mr/Ms Nice Guy." (As if it ever was!)

The count-down is on, and the attacks are getting more and more slimey. This is the part I really hate about politics. If only we could just have a CIVIL disagreement! Agree to disagree. That sort of thing. But no - Like kids on the playground, we have to say things that we can never take back.

Yes, I know, I once said I would never allow politics on my blogs, but I guess I have to retract that statement, given my recent history. Still, it's hard to think about hummingbirds, when there's a battle raging around us...

Is it "Politics as usual"? Do negative ads really work? I'd like to think they don't, but I believe the political wisdom is that they do.

As I understand it, both campaigns are reaching back into the past for the "guilt by association" technique.

It goes like this:

* Palin, who says "The heels are on, the gloves are off," has referenced a guy named Bill Ayers, a founder of the violent Weather Underground group during the Vietnam era. This group was blamed for bombings when Obama was about eight. The issue is later, however, when both men lived in the same Chicago neighborhood and worked on the same charity board. Ayers hosted a 1995 meet-the-candidate event for Obama early in his career. Campaign aides say that the VP candidate has "denounced Ayers' radical views." The charge is actually not new, as Hillary Clinton brought it up in the primaries.

* Obama's campaign has responded to this attack with one of its own, dredging up an old McCain issue from 20 years ago. This one involves a man named Charles Keating (of the "Keating Five"). McCain participated in two meetings with banking regulators on behalf of Keating, a friend, campaign contributor and savings and loan owner, who was later convicted of securities fraud. The Senate ethics committee investigated five senators who had relationships with Keating. The panel later cited McCain for "poor judgment" in the case, and he has called it "the worst mistake of my life."

So, there it is - the skeletons in the closet, the ghosts of the past, rearing their ugly heads to haunt the 2008 Presidential candidates.

What do you think? Does it matter? Are these past indiscretions relevant to today? Is it okay to sling mud? Do you think it's effective? Should candidates keep to the "high road," or does that approach leave them at a distinct disadvantage?

From the dark and rainy hills of Tillman, Missouri, this is your rural reporter, Madeline, wishing she were back on a sunny deck high above Van Buren with no worries whatsoever....

Showing comments in chronological order
[Show most recent comments first]

I think all this Ayers stuff is "too little, too late." It's kind of like McCain has panicked so they're sending Sarah out on the field with the "Ayers Play," hoping that the media picks it up and runs with it.

-- Posted by lovebooks on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 9:15 AM

Politics lack a "high road",especially at this level. Sure negative ads work,look at the mean pitiful comments the readers post,on both sides. I feel sick just thinking about how bad it will get before November!

People are so full of hatred of the opposing party,an opposing view. I like how they espouse so-called Christian beliefs,reminds me of "How can you say you love God whom you have not seen,yet hate your brother whom you have seen"?

In our office,they all vote the same,and otherwise intelligent people are amused by vulgar,stupid cartoons,not-so-funny jokes,and a daily recounting of how their candidate will destroy the opponent. No candidate makes it to the national level w/o a skeleton,no matter which party.We all have things that can be spun negative. It's easy enough to do-I have a deceased cousin whose stepson is in prison for child molesting.Since I've ate many meals with him,that means I've associated with a known pedophile,and he gave me a birthday gift once,so I've accepted gifts from" the pedophile lobby" Also,since I didn't know he had been arrested or in prison until lately,I've only "lately renounced his perv activities,when pressured by the media"-see, it's easy to create dirt.

We all need to look at our 401K statement,I just saw mine lose over 50%...Now that's a real statement on how I'm voting.

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 9:33 AM

Too bad now Yellow Rose, you wont be able to run for public office,,,,,and through no fault of your own. You would have my vote for bringing this bad situation to light.

Politics is much like some religions,, too partisan, no one wants to be happy and get along anymore.

We sing Oh how I love Jesus who we havent seen, and many times despise neighbors who we have seen everyday. \\

Looking for better days ahead.

-- Posted by changedname on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 9:42 AM

That is a fine point Dexterite-"no one wants to be happy and get along anymore"!

We get caught up in these candidates "art of distraction" speeches,then we forget they touched on "how I'll fix this issue",but didn't use any verbs in their sentences.

I shan't run for office,what with my family skeletons,and the yet undisclosed 3rd grade playground "altercation",which resulted in a "slap on the hand",no jail time,and no action on my permanent record-all by an evidently biased teacher who witnessed the line jumping incident.

-- Posted by Yellow Rose of Essex on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 10:00 AM

I watched the Palin/Biden debate, but I don't know if I'll have the stomach to watch the one tonight. I feel like a moth, drawn to the flame. I'll burn to a crisp tonight!!!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 10:36 AM

No, I'm not watching the debate either. Debates are not an appropriate format in my mind. They're too adversarial and both sides are trying to come up with the cleverist line that will be the morning network's sound bite.

Yellow Rose is right. A political spin doctor could make the Lord himself sound like an unworthy candidate for public office. "Associated with lepers and other unclean persons. Frequently seen in the company of a woman of questionable repute. Violently threw business owners out of their place of business. Advocated loving your neighbors." Oh please. Now don't get me wrong - I'm not comparing ANY candidate to our Lord. I'm not happy with any of them. I'm just pointing out that anyone's life can be twisted with innuendo and half-truths.

I'm not as interested in their personal lives as I am in their policies. Shame on both parties.

-- Posted by Ducky on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 12:35 PM

MD: Ayers wasn't just "blamed". He admitted to the bombings saying "he didn't do enough just after 9-11-2001. Research some of his statements and stances and look into the efforts of Weather Underground. Ask yourself if you would serve on a Board with this guy? Ask yourself if you would go over his house. He was well known and his actions were well publicized. President Obama isn't the guy we see on TV. The media has given him a free pass throughout the primaries and now. He is a shady politician with ties to people you and I would not want anything to do with, whether serving on a Board or going to church to hear a sermon.

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 12:48 PM

I think as the years go by the way people think change based on new things they have learned over a period of time. I sure that I would not really know the me from 1995 and the me from 1975 is long gone.

-- Posted by mythought on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 1:33 PM

Hoon is correct, MD. The media has pretty much given Obama an easy road. This was even during the primary races with Hillary. Patriot talk radio has been exposing Obama, while at the same time not excusing McCain's neo-conservatism. Check out, http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cb...

I will listen to the debate on the radio until about 9 and then go to bed. It should be good entertainment as the gloves come off!

-- Posted by swift on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 2:54 PM

The problem is that the past does form you. If I am voting for President I want to know everything about a person. What they have been is what leads them in the formulation of their beliefs and policies. Surely, I just didn't happen to wake up yesterday with no experience in life and say I am going to believe this or that. The person I am took many years to develop.

I have done some crazy things in my life as compared to what some other people have but I have never associated with a known domestic terrorist in any manner. I would think that if I had you would rightly use that as a basis for forming your opinion of my character.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 3:11 PM

It has to be that way when the media is so one sided. If people wanted REAL CHANGE, they would shake up things by voting out every senator and congressman that are already in office and say enough is enough...by the way, the majority are democrat.

-- Posted by grizz1 on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 3:18 PM

As negative as I know I've been at times, what I'd like to see out of our candidates is a different kind of "mud slinging." You know, like, "This is what I've accomplished compared to what my opponent has accomplished." Not, "He sucks" and "she sucks even more." Sorry for the terminology...I'm just so sick of it all, and so sick of arguing my views on it all, it's the best I can do.

I won't be watching the debate. My husband brought home a movie that he bought while on the road that I'm going to watch with the boys tonight. I know it's history in the making...but I just can't make myself do it.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 6:31 PM

This whole election is disgusting. What do we have to vote on? One candidate has admitted using cocaine and has a known domestic terrorist as an associate, one admits having smoked weed and whose only real claim to any legitemacy is that she is a female governor, one old man who has been a POW resulting in unknown mental problems which probably cause his flash point temper and one who is a Northeastern aristocrat who can't help but stumble over his own word because he is an absolute idiot. Please someone tell me we could have done better.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Oct 7, 2008, at 10:43 PM

Good stuff folks. Nice "town hall" forum last night. Another example of the biased media taking control of how things are done. Brokejaw and his bunch hand picked the questions with NONE about character (NO suprise there). Crown the King folks. And I feel so much better finding out how much he knows about everything. Those 143 days in the Senate taught him everything about everything. Oh, and my favorite: Health Care is a RIGHT! He is correct, it is in France and other socialist countries. Get ready and reach those hands out!

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 8:35 AM

I hope he wasn't insinuating that you have the right to health care that I have to pay for. I don't think that is a constitutional requirement.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 9:39 AM

Palin only brought up Obama's association with Bill Ayers and The Weather Underground AFTER The New York Times ran an article about it, and she quoted directly from the NYT's article.

There is an excellent documentary available on DVD titled, "The Weather Underground" (2002) that fully explains Ayers and his wife Bernardine Dohrn's involvement in the group. The documentary's website is, http://www.upstatefilms.org/weather/main... The website's homepage quotes a communique to the press by Bill Ayers' wife Bernardine Dohrn, "Hello, I'm going to read a declaration of a state of war...within the next 14 days we will attack a symbol or institution of American injustice." Thirty years ago, with those words, a group of young American radicals announced their intention to overthrow the U.S. government."

Ayers, Dohrn, and their confederates proceeded to bomb buildings all across the country in an effort to overthrow the U.S. government. After Ayers, Dohrn and the other Weather Underground members surrendered to authorities they only avoided spending the rest of their lives in prison because of the FBI's misconduct in pursuing them. They may have only avoided being tried for treason because they weren't aiding a foreign power in their effort to overthrow the U.S. government.

Ayers wrote in his memoir, "Fugitive Days" (2001), "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. ... Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon." See a NYT's article about the book, http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht... The New York Times' article about Ayers' book was published in the September 11, 2001 edition, and only hours after it hit newsstands Ayers' regret about not causing more damage was assuaged with the destruction of the World Trade Centers and the death and destruction at the Pentagon.

Why is the violent past of Ayers and Dohrn, their avowed intention to overthrow the government of the U.S. government, and Ayers' enthusiastic support for the activities of The Weather Underground as late as September 11, 2001 important? Because as documented by the NYT's, Obama has lied publicly about his involvement with Ayers, and he continues to do so. Obama is trying to run away from his past by rewriting his personal history (I know you'll love that MD with your many references to 1984.)

Obama has done the same thing by distancing himself from his intimate 20-year association with Reverend Wright and the Trinity United Church of Christ after the truth of what goes on in the church became public. Wright was interviewed for an hour by Bill Moyers on PBS and the sorts of things Wright says in the videos on Youtube, etc. are normal things he says in everyday life. I saw an interview with several members of the TUCC and they said that it doesn't have any white members because they wouldn't be confortable with the sermens and philosophy of the church. They also said the only time a white person is in the church is when a delegation visits from a foreign country.

A shrink would have a field day analyzing what goes on in the depths of Obama's psyche. What we do know is there is nothing transparent about him and a lot of duplicity.

Obama's relationships with Ayers, Wright (and possibly unknown others)are very important matters of public interest, as are the way Obama has falsely tried to minimize them. Would Obama have gotten any traction in Iowa if his relationships with Ayers and Wright had then been publicly exposed? Or would his candidacy have died a quick and ignoble death? Since Palin's characterizations of those relationships are rooted in the truth, is she engaging in "negative" campaigning or actually performing an invaluable public service?

-- Posted by FJGuy on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 1:56 PM

1. Obama did better at rhetoric than I expected in a townhall forum.

2. McCain did a good job questioning Obama's economic record. it was especially good to hear him pin him down on political contributions from Fanny May and Freddy Mac.

3. Tom Brokenjaw was more objective than I thought he'd be.

$. As far as know, no questions were asked Obam about his associations with Ayers. If it was the other way around with a Republican candidate with ties to some far right extremist group, you can bet the question about association would be asked.

9. Neither one really did any knock out punches. I call it a draw.

-- Posted by swift on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 2:43 PM

Interesting sidenote about this election (though I know you'll all boo me off the site): A friend of mine worked the polling booths during the primaries, and she said bunches of Republicans were voting Democratic, so they could get Obama in. Reason: They figured he would be easy to beat.

Ironic if true...

I still don't think he's gonna win, though.

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 4:49 PM

gl, was Obama even listed on the primary ballots???? Dont remember seeing his name. I saw two republicans wanting both ballots and were told they couldnt have both primary election ballots.

Someone may have things confused.

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 8:46 PM

I may be wrong, that was over a month ago.

-- Posted by changedname on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 8:48 PM

GOAT....you are wrong. Unless the real Barrack Hussein Obama is unveiled ( and FJguy, that was amazing stuff. Isn't crazy that folks like us can come up with information like that put into a story but the major news networks CAN'T/DON'T!)....he will be President. And just watch our wonderful country drift further toward socialism with a Pelosi led Congress and an extremist in the WH.

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 10:00 PM

They wouldn't have given anyone BOTH ballots, of course, but if voters chose to vote one way (no matter which one), they would HAVE to have given them a ballot.

How could Obama NOT have been on the ballot?? He won the primary. Am I missing something???

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 8, 2008, at 10:23 PM

My mistake goat-lady,, I was asleep again........lol.............

-- Posted by changedname on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 7:04 AM

If I had the choice between helping pay for health care and bailing out Wall street. I would help pay for health care.

-- Posted by mythought on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 9:20 AM

You don't have a choice. The idiots in Washington get to spend your money how they choose.

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 2:08 PM

I believe I had heard that Limbaugh was encouraging Repubs to take Demo ballots in the primary and vote for Hillary.

Note: The Jerome Corsi that I referred to above with a Chuck Baldwin Live website- Corsi apparently had gone to Kenya for a fact finding mission and was kidnapped and held hostage. He was later released and was supposed to have been on Hannity's talk show yesterday. Corsi has endorsed Baldwin for president.

-- Posted by swift on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 2:59 PM

Swift, I appreciate your awareness of what's going on, but I feel as if you're speaking Greek... None of those names makes any sense to me...Corsi, Baldwin, Hannity... How will any of that affect us??????

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 6:06 PM

I agree Hoon

-- Posted by mythought on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 7:32 PM

Of course Limbaugh would not want anything to do with a FAIR election. He would do anything to keep right wing zealots in power. They are the real ones who want to tell you how to live and to really control your life. Hoon talks about Obama and big government. It is BUSH and his cronies like McCain that want to listen in to your cell phone conversations and read your email without any court order whatsoever.

With this administration there was no oversight from anyone for six years; they did as they pleased. At least now Waxman, Franks, etc. will at least hold someone accountable and make sure we all are aware of the CEOs running wild with taxpayer money. Believe me, you would not have heard a word about it or had any hearings if the Republicans were still in control.

-- Posted by Wildcat67 on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 9:05 PM

Wildcat....you are truly ignorant on the subject. You have NO solutions, ONLY blame to place. Barney Franks is a MAJOR reason this **** has happened. He and Christopher Dodd are at the top of the list to Blame. McCain warned of this...look it up though I know you won't...in '95. He sponsored legislation which was voted YES on person for person by the Republicans and was voted NO on person for person by the Dems. Legislation killed. PLEASE....PLEASE PLEASE give us some solutions. Will someone other than me ASK for Substantive solutions. Please look at EVERY post Wildcat has made and look for ONE solution Obama or any liberal have to solve problems. When you find it, fill me in. Wildcat: go to bed, you have class tomorrow.

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 10:06 PM

Come on quit drinking the Kool Aid. Why would a 21 year veteran such as myself vote for a person who is and was an associate of a domestic terrorist who was bombing our country and trying to kill judges while I was serving. There is no way I could vote for Obama. He can never have my support even if he wins.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Oct 9, 2008, at 11:55 PM

Biden has been lucky that the focus is totally on Obama. He has big-time skeletons in his closet. Among other things he is a serial plagiarist. Another thing is that while much is made of McCain's less than sterling academic record, Biden's was about the same. He finished 8th from last in his graduating class at the Syracuse University Law School. See the following article published in the St. Petersburg Times about his plagiarism and academic achievements, http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/sptimes/acce...

-- Posted by FJGuy on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 2:21 PM

Are the ones that are so afraid of Socialism going to turn down their Social Security checks?

It is Socialism...Just ask any college student that is going for social work.

People say Liberals and Socialism like they are talking about the devil. It simply means for the people,helping people that can't help themselves. I know that it is sometimes used by people that don't really need it or deserve it. But for every 1 that does that there are 100 that really need our help.

-- Posted by Gemini on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 2:34 PM

Gemini, I would also assume that you are for minimum wage and its increases, and giving gas cards to poor people....what a government that will be.

-- Posted by BonScott on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 4:44 PM

Oh my, social security....I am sure Hoon and FJGuy,and I B. will turn it down.....lol....How dare a government have a minimum wage and give hungry people food stamps that are worth $25 a week...how dare they??? I guess BonScott is one of those guys who has theirs and to hell with everyone else.

Yep, when Obama was 8 years old, he was an associate of a terrorist. LOL.

How can a 21 year veteran support a Republican party that has turned their backs on the veterans coming back from Iraq? I am a vet also and I think it is the worst conduct yet of the Bush administration....send guys over there to die or get disabled and not support them when they return....Get a life....

McCain warned of this and then turned around and made sure there were no regulations and no oversight of the banking industry. He has promised to do the same for healthcare....God save us....

-- Posted by Wildcat67 on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 7:33 PM

Wildcat, tell me one good thing about increasing minimum wage. And no, I don't say the hell with everyone else. I give to charity every year and to church every week but I don't want to pay for some poor persons gas card so they can go on vacation. Call me selfish but that's the way I feel.

-- Posted by BonScott on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 8:18 PM

Wildcat obviously you are a person who knows nothing about veterans benefits or what is available to veterans or maybe you got turned down when you filed a claim. Our DESERVED veterans today receive more assistance and help than ever before and this has happened under the Bush administration. I meet a lot of vets who assume that just because they served and they are sick twenty years later that the government owes them because of the two years they served when they were 18. Not every illness is related to military service. Somtimes things happen while you are a civilian.

You are also missing the boat on who is responsible for this disaster. If you will check, McCain tried to get Fannie and Freddie under control and the Democratic party made sure it never left committee.

It is not OK to be a friend with a domestic terrorist. That is like saying it is OK to be friends with anyone, no matter what they have done. How about an old retired Hitler if he were still alive? It's OK, he just used to be a crazy man who put jews in the ovens, but he doesn't anymore. I assume that you would allow Ayers to come to your house and you would visit with him in his. Shame, drink some more of the Kool Aid..

I don't like McCain, but how in the heck the Democratic party ever lowered itself to this I will never understand. If he is elected it will not be on my conscience.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Oct 10, 2008, at 8:31 PM

I.B., have aliens taken over your significant brain?? What a cryin' shame! Please don't let the vitriolic, hateful nature of this campaign change your normally logical, rational thought process!

To suggest that a casual relationship with an old rabble rouser is the same as dealing with HITLER is preposterous! You of all people should be above such inflamatory, illogical, irrational mud-slinging!

Do you see how this campaign is sliding into dangerous territory? There's a big difference between political enthusiasm and hate-mungering.

Can we not DISAGREE without threatening to KILL each other?

-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 8:04 AM

gl, we knew from the beginning this would get out of hand and I'm sure MD didnt intend this to be so.

We're getting to be some country, not what our founders meant.

As far as minimum wage, workers dont need just the crumbs falling from the Kings table.

-- Posted by changedname on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 9:19 AM

1. Minimum wage increases mean higher prices of goods. That's a matter of fact because business owners (employers) have to charge more for goods to pay their workers.

2. If you look back at the history of economic depressions in our country- 1873, 1893, and 1929- you will notice that each depression helps the political party out of power.

3. I listened to some of what Bill Ayers said as played on Sean Hannity yesterday. I also listened to Bob Dornan. What an expose of this terrorist. How Obama didn't know Ayers was a terrorist is beyond me. How he could sit on a board with him in the 90's and help him financially while Ayers was helping his state senate campaign is beyond me. How Obama could still associate with him after what he said after Sept 11,'01 as reported in the NY Times is beyond me. I guess what really blows my mind is how the media says very little about it except to say that Republicans are accusing Obama of associating with Ayers. The info is out there folks! How can people vote for Obama knowing about his far left associations is just hard for me to comprehend except that rhetoric over record persuades most Americans. I guess maybe we are like sheep without a shepherd and are easily duped by wolves in sheep's clothing.

-- Posted by swift on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 10:36 AM

And please don't take the above post to mean I support McCain. I don't much care for him.

By the way, how does Obama stand on abortion as compared to McCain? I know the answer- you decide! As for me and my house, we will not vote for candidates who support the supposed right to kill one's unborn baby. We Vote Pro-Life! SEMO Lifechain is tomorrow, Sunday October 12th from 2:30-3:30 lining One Mile Road and Business 6o. We pro-lifers do this to pray in unity for an end to the abortion holocaust, pray for our leaders, pray for the upcoming elections, and to pray for those mothers who have either had an abortion or who may be planning on having one that God will just wrap His arms around them and extend His love and forgiveness.

-- Posted by swift on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 10:43 AM

Swift, since Bush and the Republicans were in total power for 6 out of the last 8 years, got to appoint all the Federal judges,etc., how come the Roe Vs. Wade was not overturned? What legislation did Bush push thru to help reduce abortions....answer, NONE....Obama has said he will do everything possible to reduce abortions short of overturn Roe V. Wade. The Republicans have used the abortion issue as lip service to the Christian right such as yourself and BonScott.

Don't get me wrong, I think abortion is reprehensible; but you and I both know that overturning Roe V Wade will NOT end abortion. I am old enough to remember prior to Roe V. Wade...Only those with rich pockets could send away themselves or their children away to get abortions done, anonymously. Our constitution protects the mother's rights as well as the unborn child's rights, even if we don't like it.

-- Posted by Wildcat67 on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 11:21 AM

You are so right, Wildcat! That's why i support the Constitution Party candidate for president, Chuck Baldwin. I know he doesn't have a prayer of getting elected, but at least I know how he stands. Check out- Http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080822.html

-- Posted by swift on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 12:10 PM

Don't know why that didn't highlight!

-- Posted by swift on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 12:13 PM

A lawsuit pending in federal court in Pennsylvania that is seeking documentary proof that Obama is a "natural born" U.S. citizen, is potentially much more "explosive" in its implications than Obama's association with Ayers. The US Constitution limits the office of President to a "natural born" citizen. If Obama is not a "natural born" citizen he is not eligible to be President. Period. End of story.

The Pennsylvania lawyer who filed the lawsuit, Philip Berg, has all the legal documents he has filed, and the responses that have been filed in opposition by Obama and the DNC (two of the lawsuit's Defendants) on his website, http://obamacrimes.com/ FYI, Berg is a life long Democrat, and he is asking for donations on his website to pay for his expenses in carrying on the extraordinary amount of work that is going into the lawsuit.

The lawsuit details that there is significant evidence Obama was born in Kenya, and because of his Kenyan father automatically became a Kenyan citizen. He later became an Indonesian citizen when his mother married an Indonesian, renounced her U.S. citizenship and moved with Obama to Indonesia where he went to school. It is known that Obama traveled on an Indonesian passport at least until he was 20-years-old. In contrast with the evidence of Obama's Kenyan and Indonesian citizenship, there is a lack of evidence in the public domain that Obama has been a citizen of the U.S. at any time in his life. ("Natural born" or naturalized.)

This is serious stuff. Berg says he is seeking to find out the truth about Obama's citizenship status in order to avoid the grave Constitutional crisis that would ensue if he were elected President and it were to then become publicly known that he is Constitutionally ineligible for the office.

Berg lawsuit fundamentally requests disclosure of several documents that will establish Obama's citizenship status. Obama and the DNC are fighting tooth and nail to prevent the judge from ruling that they have to produce the documents. The documents are:

(a) A certified copy of Obama's "vault" (original long version) birth certificate;

(b) All reissued and sealed birth certificates of Obama;

(c) A certified copy of Obama's Certification of Citizenship;

(d) A certified copy of Obama's Oath of Allegiance taken upon age of majority; and

(e) Certified copies of Obama's Admission forms for Occidental College, Columbia University and Harvard Law School.

A key document is Obama's original birth certificate. There is a JPG file of a laser printed document released by the DNC this summer that they are claiming is sufficient proof of Obama's birth -- but it is not his original birth certificate. You can see the DNC document here, http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/... At least three document examiners have rejected the document as a forgery. As a special treat for Madeline, here is a link on the Atlas Shrugs website that has a detailed examination of the JPG file's pixels to establish it isn't authentic. http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas... Pixel analysis is a standard way to detect fake graphic files (Is that really Britney sunbathing topless in a picture, or is it her head on someone else's body? Pixel anaylsis reveals the truth!)

Berg's amended complaint filed on October 6 includes newly discovered details about Obama's life and adds several Defendants. In parts it reads like a suspense thriller. You can read the Amended Complaint here, http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachments/0...

Attorney Berg is fighting a one-man battle to learn the truth, but there is no question that McCain/Palin are monitoring how his lawsuit is going. If nothing is resolved by the last week of the campaign, don't be surprised if they launch an all out ad campaign demanding that Obama prove he was born in the U.S. -- and that he is not a Kenyan/Indonesian who wants to be President.

Another oddity about Obama is that he has used at least five names in his life, and Berg lists all five names as Defendants in his lawsuit. Well, it seems odd to me that a guy would use five names.

There are several other grave implication's raised by Berg's lawsuit. One is that a person is required to at least be a naturalized citizen to be a U.S. senator from Illinois, and if Obama is not a U.S. citizen then he is illegally representing Illinois. And of course, if Obama is not a citizen and has the status of being an illegal alien, then he is subject to deportation proceedings to the country of his citizenship.

As important as is the story underlying Berg's lawsuit, it is somewhat astonishing that it is being completely ignored by the national media. I just did a search on Google News and only three small newspapers in the U.S. have run stories about it, two in Pennsylvania and one in Illinois. Where is The Daily Statesman's coverage?

-- Posted by FJGuy on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 2:33 PM

Come on GL. Ayers is not a rabble rouser, people died as a result of his action and you would have to be living in OZ not to know what he stood for. Killing is killing and there should be no doubt in anyones mind that he still feels the same way he always has. He is a rabble rousing murderer with the intent to overthrow the government.

You should know better Wildcat. To get to vote on any abortion issue you would have to have 60 votes in the senate. Using your logic, the Democrats promised to do something about the price of gas if they were elected to the majority and ran on the "Had Enough" slogan. Well, what has happened? Gas prices have continued to climb for two years with them in control and absolutely no legislation has been passed to help anything.

No way should we trust them to have control of the Presidency too.

By the way, I attended the veterans benefits and employment assistance fair at the Dexter Armory today. There were organizations there offering educational assistance, medical assistance, employment assistance and even claims officers to assist with filing for benefits. Want to guess how many veterans showed up? You could count them all if you took a shoe off. Want to know how many were Iraq veterans? Only two that I saw and they were primarily interested talking with the TRCC representative about using their supposed non-existent educational benefits. Where were the mistreated and poorly cared for veterans? I don't know, but they aren't applying or asking for help. No more whining.

By the way, I support a womans right to choose and I also believe in stem cell research. I support a womans right to have a child by any idiot she wants to but I don't support any legislation that make me responsible for the care of the child, unless I am the idiot she chose to have the baby with of course.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sat, Oct 11, 2008, at 3:01 PM

Wildcat....Obama was 8 years old when Ayers committed his atrocious acts. He ASSociated with him later in his professional life. How can anyone make a list of negatives about a politician from one party (Bush) and find NOTHING...not one fault of another from a different party (Obama). Your partisanship is exactly what this country doesn't need. I am still anxious to hear ONE one fault of the Pelosi/Reed led Congress from you. Also ONE thing Obama has done besides read words others write to prepare for a Presidency? Type now!

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Sun, Oct 12, 2008, at 9:44 PM

You sound like a broken record - "Name ONE thing...(skip)...ONE thing...(skip)...ONE thing!)

I believe it was blogger Angelina Joline who went to the trouble to post an FJGuy-type list (stretching several pages) of things that Obama had done. You totally ignored her and went on with your broken-record thing, boring us all to smitherines. Now you have FJ helping you, and I notice that you no longer refer to him as "Foot JoyBoy..."

The whole episode illustrates the point that it does no good to tell you - you just keep the scratchy record going....and going....and going...

I've spent far too long this morning, searching the archives for Angelina's posting... I have to go to work. I'll check back this evening to receive all my due quota of sputtering insults and sarcastic "baaaaa-ing..."

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 8:28 AM

Wow, no sputtering and baa-ing! Mmm...I wonder if hoon is dead???? Scarey thought! Wait a minute! He's already dead!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 4:59 PM

goat lady, I believe you are old enough to know that vinyl records are better than tapes and CDs. So being like a broken record is better than a skipping CD.

-- Posted by BonScott on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 6:50 PM

BonScott, I'm even old enough to remember those brittle 78's before vinyl.

Do you mean to tell me that now they're admitting - after all those years of "advanced technology" - that vinyl records were better all along??

So much for progress....

Nice defensive move, by the way...

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 9:33 PM

gl, the so called "music purists" say that actual vinyl albums put out a more true sound. I don't know if I agree, so I will stick with my CDs.

-- Posted by BonScott on Mon, Oct 13, 2008, at 10:25 PM

If vinyl does make a comeback, my sister may regret putting her beautiful old console "hi-fi" out on the curb this last weekend...

I even have some 8-track tapes that I won't let go of...

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 7:59 AM

I don't mean to like change the subject or anything/ But, the SEMO Lifechain on Sunday afternoon had a great turn out!

-- Posted by swift on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 10:22 AM

Keep looking GOAT...or better yet, just tell me a few things YOU believe. I am not looking for a "list" found on the internet...looking for known things Obama lovers believe in and think he has accomplished in his 143 days in the Senate.

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 11:51 AM

GL, the resolved status of Obama's birthplace and country of citizenship could develop into a grave national crisis if he is elected and the truth is discovered after the fact that he is constitutionally ineligible to be President, or even a U.S. Senator.

For all his right-wing ranting, even Charles Krauthammer has acknowledged that Obama is smart enough and has the temperment to be President, but that his character and judgment are open issues. http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Y2J... Those concerns are compounded by the unresolved question of whether Obama is a "natural born", or even a naturalized U.S. citizen. If he isn't a "natural born" citizen he is ineligible to be President under the Constitution, and if he isn't a naturalized citizen he is ineligible to be a U.S. Senator from Illinois, and he would be an illegal alien subject to arrest and deportation to the country of his citizenship.

Attorney Philip J. Berg, a Pennsylvania lawyer and life-long Democrat who supported Hillary Clinton, only filed a federal lawsuit to ascertain Obama's birth and citizenship status after he ran into stonewalling by agencies and organizations in the U.S. and Kenya, and Obama refused to provide him with information. (See paragraphs 146 and 147 of his lawsuit) http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachments/0...

Obama is hiding behind state and federal privacy laws to conceal if he was born in the U.S., or if he is a U.S. citizen, or in fact a citizen of Indonesia, Kenya, or both. It is almost breathtaking to comprehend?! Obama has publicly released his tax returns to show how much money he makes, but he is refusing to publicly release the original documents that will prove the country of his birth or if he is a U.S. citizen!!! I find that both astonishing and damning for him. A birth certificate is a neutral personal document. It is a reasonable conclusion to draw from Obama's actions that he knows he is ineligible to be President of the United States (after all he did go to law school) -- and the truth has to be concealed at all costs.

Obama's defense to Berg's lawsuit is stunning --- 'It is ridiculous to require me to provide documents proving I'm a "natural born" citizen and my citizenship status, because you can trust me when I say I am a citizen.' Obama has even filed a motion with the federal court to block Berg from conducting discovery to obtain documents and conduct depositions about Obama's birth and citizenship status. Why is Obama afraid to be put under oath and questioned about where he was born, where he lived, and what country he is a citizen of?

Obama's efforts to conceal his citizenship status is particularly odious considering what is known. Three of Obama's relatives have publicly asserted that Obama was born in Kenya (his grandmother on his father's side, his half-brother and half-sister) -- and there is a Certificate Registering Obama's birth in Mombassa, Kenya. Furthermore, it is known that he was an Indonesian citizen at the age of five, and he was traveling with an Indonesian passport as late as 20 years-old, which were only issued to Indonesian citizens because Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship until November 21, 2006 (see, http://www.indonesiamatters.com/830/dual...

It could be that Obama's autobiography "The Audacity of Hope" had a secret meaning: He had the audacity to hope that the truth of his past wouldn't be found out before he could become President. If Obama becomes President and it is proven he is foreign born do you really think he would resign? Get real. Do you really think the Demos would back an effort to impeach him and remove him from office as required by the Constitution? Get real. So Obama could wind up creating extreme chaos within the U.S., and he might have to flex his muscle by invoking the martial law provisions put in place under Bush. Obama could easily wind up being the single most divisive person in U.S. history. But this can all be avoided if he will only come clean and release, and authorize the release of all the documents requested in Berg's lawsuit. If he was born in Kenya so be it. But at this point he is putting his personal ambition ahead of the welfare and peace of mind of the people of the United States. Does he deserve to be President under those circumstances?

To my knowledge the first televised report about the lawsuit aired on a Toledo, Ohio TV station and there is a link to it on Berg's website, http://obamacrimes.com/ If Bill O'Reilly, et al decide to start covering the controversy over Obama's birthplace and citizenship it will dwarf Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, etc. in intensity. Particularly since Indonesia is the most populous Muslim-majority nation on Earth.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 8:06 PM

FJ, you have finally gone off the deep end!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 9:26 PM

GL...just curious...I don't want to have anymore political discussions persay...but why do you think FJ has gone off the deep end? If what he's saying is true about Obama not being born in the U.S. or not being a naturalized citizen...then what he says about this turning out very badly is most definately (sp) true! What are your views on how he's gone off the deep end?

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 10:06 PM

This is totally off the subject, but f.y.i. to everyone who uses (sp) when they think they misspell a word. Start using your spell check on your computer. I found that it actually helps you remember how to spell that particular word the next time you spell it.....Dolphie was wanting to get off subject so I thought I would help.

-- Posted by BonScott on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 10:45 PM

If it is not true, why would you not just produce the original documents. That would pretty much put an end to it wouldn't it and make the initiator of the lawsuit look pretty stupid.

What if it is true and we find out after the election and Obama has won? I think we need to know now.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Oct 14, 2008, at 11:12 PM

I guess the Republicans are really desparate now...claiming Obama is a Muslim and questioning his citizenship...demanding proof he was born a U.S. citizen....he should do what Harry Truman would have done in the same instance...tell them all to go to hell...

I guess we should demand all of John McCain's data on his and his wife's income and what all the family owns, houses, cars, etc. as he cannot remember how many houses he owns. On second thought, that doesn't have anything to do with his stance on issues. The Republicans know they can't win on issues. Just like they 'swift boated' John Kerry, to take the focus off the real issues of a stupid war in Iraq that has gotten 4000 of our best and bravest killed and many more thousands wounded, and the worst economic record since Hoover.

-- Posted by Wildcat67 on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 2:23 AM

Hey there wildcat...if you'll read FJ's post correctly, you'll see that the guy suing Obama is a democrat...doesn't look to me like the republicans have anything to do with that one.

Bon, I don't want to use spell check.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 7:41 AM

Dolphin, if you believe everything that FJ writes then you have got a big problem....

-- Posted by Wildcat67 on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 7:56 AM

wildcat, I'd believe FJ over half these news outlets and internet sites.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 9:26 AM

Not to mention the fact that FJ sounds more legitimate than anything I've heard you say thus far...from here on out, I'm back to not reading these blogs.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 9:30 AM

Well, I think that it's a very simple matter. I don't understand how a true American could vote for someone with a name like B.H.O. On the other hand, John is a good solid, Biblical name and McCain certainly sounds Irish, some of the first immigrants. I know where my vote is going, even if it is based on name only.

-- Posted by ct on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 12:19 PM

Excellent logic, ct....

Well, dolphin, if you're still on here (sorry - I took a break), it seems to me that if there were definite proof that Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen, the Republicans would be all over that news. I'm sure some of you (not mentioning those names again...) will say that it's not on the news, because the media is so liberal and they're hushing it up.

Maybe so, but I'm not getting all bent out of shape until I hear it from someone a little less paranoid on the subject than FJ happens to be AT THE MOMENT. (Not all the time. In the past he has been remarkably astute, and he certainly isn't afraid to voice his opinion. I admire that, even if I don't always agree with him!)

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 1:42 PM

For a couple years we've been inundated with campaign spin and claims and distortions and rumors and worse about each candidate. So now a person emerges like Diogenes with his lantern asking a very simple question that doesn't involve any interpretation or analysis or strategizing: Obama, can you provide verifiable evidence of where you born to a U.S. District Court judge?

The answer to this simple question requires Obama to provide genuine, real, actual evidence admissible in a court of law proving his country of birth. That is in sharp contrast with a JPG file posted on the internet that purports to be a copy of his birth certificate, and his unsubstantiated claims of where he was born.

Attorney Philip Berg lit his candle seeking the truth seven weeks ago (His lawsuit was filed on August 24), and Obama's response has been a deafening silence to providing proof of where he was born, while his lawyers have done everything they can to prevent him from being compelled to present proof of where he was born to a federal judge. Obama's concealment of his personal documents goes far beyond his birth document, but he is also concealing his admission forms to the three colleges he attended and his medical records -- all of which could indicate his country of birth and his nationality.

The audio of an unedited 23-minute interview of attorney Berg with a Toledo, Ohio TV station can be listened to here, http://forejustice.org/audio/philip_berg...

What isn't known about Obama is breathtaking, considering he is within a few weeks of possibly being elected President. Not only is it unknown for certain where he was born or what country he is a citizen of, but Berg raises the issue that we don't even know his real name. That is why in his lawsuit Berg had to list as Defendants all five names Obama has used in his life, to make sure he named the right person. But Berg makes a compelling case that his legal name is Barry Soetoro, which of course would mean that Barack Obama is an alias.

As for Berg's Democratic credentials, he is not only a life-long Democrat, but he has even run for Governor and U.S. Senator in Pennsylvania in primaries. He is no friend of the Republicans. After 9/11 he represented the widow of a man killed in the plane that hit the second WTC tower in a Rico lawsuit that named George Bush, Richard Cheney and others as Defendants. See, http://www.911forthetruth.com

-- Posted by FJGuy on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 2:56 PM
Madeline Dejournett's response:
FJ, am I missing something? Wasn't Obama's mother a U.S. citizen? If so, it doesn't matter where he was born, does it? And what are you driving at about the three colleges? Why is that significant?

Y'all going to watch or listen to the debate tonight? I'm thinking of listening to part of it and hitting the hay at 9. Anymore, I'd get about as much pleasure listening to a game of golf.

Side note: Hank williams Jr has a remake of Family Tradition played on Hannitty. You have to check it out! I'm not a McCain fan, but this song is great!

-- Posted by swift on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 3:25 PM
Madeline Dejournett's response:
It's spelled "ya'll," swift. See the grammar blog... :)

Wildcat you forget the soldiers are all volunteers. I don't think they feel the same way you do about Iraq. You should leave the soldiers out of whatever complaint you have.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Wed, Oct 15, 2008, at 6:22 PM

Of course not, I.B. They are true patriots who will go whereever and do whatever their president says. It is too bad their president doesn't have a clue on foreign policy or domestic policy for that matter.

-- Posted by Wildcat67 on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 1:19 AM

FJ, check snopes.com on that natural-born citizen bit. Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. His mother was a U.S. citizen, but even if neither his mom or dad had been U.S. citizens, his birth on U.S. soil would have automatically resulted in citizenship.

Several other arguments of yours are exploded on snopes.com, as well. I'm surprised that you haven't checked your facts more thoroughly.

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 7:54 AM

That a girl MD.....Keep up the defense of the liberal point of view. You are a typical news person who behind a silly smile claims to be unbiased and bi-partisan, when really you are a liberal Democrat who is quick defend your heroes on the side of the ***, I mean donkey.

-- Posted by shannonhoon on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 8:59 AM

MD, you erased my comment, but have left some of the other, more harsh comments on here? Now I know I won't be back on the political blogs...if I come on here at all.

-- Posted by mrsdolphin on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 10:35 AM
Madeline Dejournett's response:
Dolphin, I deleted the entire blog, not just your comment - and I'm going to follow my original resolve not to write about politics. It's just too upsetting. Sorry if you took it personally, since I'm sure you realize that it's been coming on for a long time. I think you're intelligent enough to know that there was more involved than your posting.

Hey MD, thanks fer the correction! lol!

-- Posted by swift on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 2:52 PM
Madeline Dejournett's response:
Yer welcume, swift!!

I don't know MD. I've been erased a few times and I'm not even one of the inflammatory bloggers. Guess it was probably on someone else's blog, though, not yours.

-- Posted by ct on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 4:23 PM
Madeline Dejournett's response:
Haha! You haven't ARRIVED, until you've been ERASED!! Maybe your posting was too close to Hoon's, and you got erased by mistake!!

Once again Wildcat, that must not be their opinion since the vast majority of them have volunteered under the Bush administration and most of them since the invasion of Iraq. So, do they believe in his policy or not? Their actions say they do. Well, most of them anyway.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 6:06 PM

GL, I looked at the snopes.com webpage and it doesn't have any information relevant to resolving the issue of where Obama was born or what country he is a citizen of. Those are the issues Philip Berg's lawsuit seeks to resolve by demanding that Obama's present legally admissible evidence of his country of birth and his citizenship status.

Members of The Flat Earth Society believe the Earth is flat, but it doesn't make it so, anymore than unverified declarations that Obama was born in Hawaii doesn't make it so. See, TFES's website, http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonsk... To date there is less substantiation in the public realm that Obama was born in the United States than that the Earth is flat. After all, the Earth does look flat when one is standing on the ground.

To satisfy my curiosity I went to the State of Hawaii's website and read up on obtaining the birth certificate of someone born in Hawaii. This is the webpage, http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/v... Anyone can apply for a certified copy of someone's birth certificate, and the cost is $10. So today I filled out and printed the form requesting a certified copy of Obama's birth certificate. I went to the Post Office and bought a money order for $10 and mailed the form and MO by certified mail to the Vital Statistics Section of the Hawaii State Department of Health. The webpage says they respond within 10 business days. So I should get a response within two weeks.

GL, as soon as Obama was served with Berg's lawsuit on August 24 he could have told his lawyers -- 'Gee guys, let's send $10 bucks to the State of Hawaii and get a certified copy of my birth certificate so we can file it in Court and the judge will dismiss the case.' But did he do that? No, he didn't. Instead he enlisted three heavyweight law firms (two in Wash DC and one in Philadelphia) to represent him (and the DNC) to engage in an all out effort to avoid him from having to produce legally admissable evidence in federal court that he was born in the U.S. or that he is a U.S. citizen. Instead of spending $10 and putting to rest forever questions about his place of birth, Obama and the DNC have thus far spent many tens of thousands of dollars on obscenely high-priced lawyers to try and avoid being forced to present evidence of his birthplace and country of citizenship in court.

Ask yourself GL. If Obama was born in the U.S. and was a U.S. citizen, would he be doing what he is doing? Let's look at the situation from a little different perspective. Suppose that your concern for the welfare of goats inspired you to want to fight for their rights by running for a Stoddard County Commissioner position. You get your application and it says you have to submit a copy of your birth certificate to prove you are a natural born U.S. citizen. Knowing your love of goats, and that they need your advocacy, you would undoubtedly be more than willing to spend the $10 or $20 it would cost to get a certified copy of your birth certificate, and you would proudly attach it to your application. No big deal. Heck yes you would get your birth certificate! It would be a minor inconvenience on the path to standing up for the goats that need you!

Yet, Obama is running for President and wants to represent everyone in the U.S., and it is a very big deal for him to produce a genuine, certified copy of his birth certificate in court. I would think that regardless of a person's party affiliation, Obama's evasive actions are cause for grave concern. Why? Because the logical interpretation of his actions is they are all but an admission that he was not born in the U.S., which makes him ineligible under the U.S. Constitution to be President of the United States. And, he is also trying to avoid presenting evidence he is even a naturalized U.S. citizen. If he isn't a citizen then he is an illegal alien and acting unlawfully as a senator for Illinois.

George Carlin had a sardonic sense of humor, and if he were alive I can visualize him saying in a routine about the questions surrounding Obama's eligibility to run for President, or for him to even be in the U.S.: "Seems like something that might be just a little bit important. Humm, might be worth looking into ... like right NOW!"

It is not without reason that attorney Berg is openly and publicly calling Obama a fraud. He is much worse than that if he has perpetrated one of the greatest hoaxes in world history on the American people.

I don't know what the State of Hawaii is going to send me ... but if they send me a certified copy of Obama's birth certificate I will be a happy camper, and will promptly contact attorney Berg. But if by chance a couple of humorless guys in dark suits from an alphabet agency come knocking on my door wanting to know why I want it, I can always refer them to this blog to explain why. Thanks for the back-up Madeline!!!

-- Posted by FJGuy on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 8:56 PM

If you were intent on demanding that I furnish you with a birth certificate, I wouldn't co-operate with you, either, FJ. Just out of principle.

Are you planning a book deal on this research, by chance?

-- Posted by goat lady on Thu, Oct 16, 2008, at 9:48 PM

Why wouldn't you if you were running for President? You have to present one to get a drivers license in Missouri when you apply the first time. I am beginning to believe he can't produce one.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Fri, Oct 17, 2008, at 9:17 PM


-- Posted by goat lady on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 10:29 PM

Well, why wouldn't you produce it to the court and why would you not scan the back of it if that is where the seal and signature is.

I scan a lot of legal documents and I always scan the seal and signature which are as said on the reverse side in a great many instances.

Let's see it.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sat, Oct 18, 2008, at 11:44 PM

Would you and FJ really believe a scan of the back, any more than you do the scan of the front? What would you want next - his first grade report card? Maybe his immunization chart? Perhaps a scan of his baptismal record? Maybe a notorized DNA test? (front and back - with the biographical background and some sort of authentication of the Notory's qualifications)

Admit it - He could jump through hoops from now till Doomsday, and would it really make any difference?

-- Posted by goat lady on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 7:08 AM

I want him to turn his birth certificate over in compliance with the law suit. Would you not have to? I know I would.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 1:47 PM

GL, the issue is simple. The U.S. Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen. In response to a lawsuit demanding that Obama provide proof he was born in the U.S. he has enlisted at least three big-time law firms to try and prevent him from having to do so. At a minimum Obama is not acting transparently, and at worst he is engaging in a deliberate cover-up of his past to illegitimately become the President. Unfortunately, I suspect that once the election is held, and if he gets more votes than McCain, there isn't a judge in the country with enough guts to effectively invalidate the election by removing him as an ineligible Democratic candidate ... even if he isn't eligible and tens of millions of people know it. Obama has failed in this situation to openly, honestly, or Presidentially, and it may be to your chagrin, but he is giving people just one more reason to vote for McCain.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 7:50 PM

I think he was born in the United States, but he, or his advisors perpetuate the controversey by not acting transparent as FJ says.

It would be foolish of him to try to hide his citizenship because the State Department has the records if he was born abroad. There is a record somewhere there and a copy of the application for a Passport which he would have had to have to enter the United States if it is a fact that he was born somewhere else. I think anyway because I have two children born overseas and they had to have passports before we could come home. So, I think he is a citizen, but why would you cause questions I don't understand.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Sun, Oct 19, 2008, at 8:03 PM

FJ, none of what you've posted is new stuff. You just keep reiterating it over and over, ad nauseum. Until I hear from an objective, authoritative source, I'm going to assume that this is another conspiracy theory, of which we have had more than an abundance this year!

As far as I can see, all the horrible barrage of false information has done is to drive some independent voters over to the Obama camp, in disgust over the tactics being used by his opponents.

Last night, Andy Rooney was such a welcome relief in this ugly political debate, when he admitted that he didn't know who he was going to vote for. He said he knew both men and felt that we couldn't go wrong with either one.

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 5:03 AM

Don't go crazy GL. He might not be a legal citizen. Might not be I said, I don't know and he needs to give his birth certificate to the court and not the internet. He is causing this. What is wrong with giving your birth certificate to the court when everyone so willingly gives theirs to the license bureau. Let's see it and let John McCain produce his too. His birth might be just as controversial. I have two children who were born in Germany. They have a legal right to declare citizenship there, but if they do they lose their American citizenship. The U.S. does not recognize dual citizenship. Let's see it all. It is funny how you can run for the President and not have to prove your eligibility.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 9:16 AM

So, okay, I can discuss this reasonably. (As long as FJGuy stays out of it!) I googled the topic earlier today and came up with a little info, but I still didn't have time to find out if all the candidates of the past have been required to submit a hard copy of their birth certificate to "the court." By the way, what court are we talking about here?

Would there not have been some sort of requirements for U.S. senators along the way?

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 3:47 PM

I don't think there is a requirement for senators but I do think if is a requirement then let them all produce verification just like I have to when it is a requirement to be a citizen or resident of some precinct.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 4:32 PM

I.B., you don't know if it's required, any more than I do! So what are you squawking about??? "If it's a requirement...?" "just like I have to..."

More opinion. Where are your facts?

And even FJGuy, who always has a slew of facts, can't go back far enough in this whole debate to give me a sense of how it got started and why there's a witch hunt for Obama's birth certificate!

-- Posted by goat lady on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 9:19 PM

Yes IB you are right. Everyone running for President or Vice-President should be required to have to have the appropriate agency (County or State Public Health Department, etc.) submit legally admissible documents (i.e., originals or certified copies) attesting to the person's status as a "natural born" citizen. Part of Berg's lawsuit is his claim that the DNC and the Federal Election Commission were derelict in their responsibility to the public by failing to conduct any vetting of Obama's (or the other candidate's) citizenship status before allowing him to run as a Presidential candidate.

I suspect all the controversy Obama is causing by not being forthcoming about where he was born is a portent of the tumultuousness that will continue about many issues if he is elected. While Bush ran in 2000 as a uniter and not a divider, Obama doesn't even have the audacity to make that outlandish claim.

-- Posted by FJGuy on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 9:44 PM

What are you talking about GL? You know you know you have to be a natural born citizen to be President. Believe it or not, it appears to be the primary qualification. I know I had to prove residency to register to vote, why shouldn't you have to produce a birth certificate to run for President? I would like to see McCain's too. I have questions about him too.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Mon, Oct 20, 2008, at 11:45 PM

Yes, I know about the requirement for president, I.B. I was asking about the requirement for senator.

And FJ - There you go again! Look at what you've written and see if you can figure out why I can't listen to you. You don't stick to the facts. Instead you launch off into rhetoric, as if you're on some sort of platform in front of a big crowd.

Can I assume, then, that the whole controversy began when Berg filed the lawsuit?

Something is missing in this debate, so I guess I'll just let it go until I can verify all this with an outside source. I'm just trying to figure it out, and you're more interested in arguing.

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 6:16 AM

If the polls are any indication, sheople aren't concerned about Obama's associations, his birth certificate, or his wanting to "spread the wealth around" via redistribution of the wealth. I predict, and I hate to say this, he's probably going to win this election. Obamanation!

-- Posted by swift on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 2:50 PM

I don't know - I read an article today which said that the pollsters are nervous about their predictions in this election. The article reminded readers that the polls predicted a Kerry victory. The problem seems to be in the enthusiasm of the Obama supporters - Their over-enthusiasm may cause the poll results to be skewed, somehow.

I've always felt that he didn't have a chance...but???

It ain't over 'till it's over!

-- Posted by goat lady on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 3:38 PM

Have no fear GL. McCain has reached his peak.

I am only sad because I don't want either one of them. I was never really enthusiastic about anyone in either primary.

How we got to the point that this is all we have to choose from is revolting to me. We have many people in this country who are great leaders and all we are getting is a young inexperienced whipper snapper with a slick tongue and a slightly unstable old gentleman who really should be sitting in a rocker on his porch grumbling at those passing by.

-- Posted by I.B. Le Truth on Tue, Oct 21, 2008, at 9:51 PM

Ooooh....I.B., I fear that you are so right. One day someone on the "inside" will write a tell-all book about how all this happened. Maybe they'll call it "Year of Infamy" or "The Election that Nobody Won"... They'll have to go back a few years to explain all the forces and intrigues behind the Election of 2008.

I hope we're being unnecessarily pessimistic, and it turns out all right in the end!

-- Posted by goat lady on Wed, Oct 22, 2008, at 6:53 AM
Madeline Dejournett's response:
This was an excellent blog. Thanks to everyone who joined in on it. It's been very tempting to join the political fray again - esp. after Powell's announcement, but I promised myself that I would not do it - and, in fact, I emailed Corey and BEGGED him to take over the political topic again. He's so much BETTER at it than I am!!

R.I.P. Politics!

Still....if a really good photo pops up, I may not be able to resist!!!!!

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Madeline DeJournett
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Madeline (Giles) DeJournett is the Advance writer for the North Stoddard Countian. A retired high school English/history teacher, she spent 32 years teaching in 5 schools in Missouri and Alaska. These days, she lives quietly with a menagerie of wild and domestic animals on 52 secluded acres in the remote Tillman hills south of Advance. She graduated from Dexter High School in 1960 and Southeast Missouri State in 1964. She can be contacted at advancensc@sbcglobal.net.
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